EK 1 L59 double-marked, opinions please

[Montgomery Burns]

this ek 1 came in today....

mmmmmmmmmm
,,,,,,

upiniuns please,,,????

[Montgomery Burns]

kk

[Montgomery Burns]

jjjj

[CMSgt]

L59

Kay, very nice EK screwback, matches mine, but mine is without the second stamp. Jim

[Calvin Hall]

Nice original L59 EK1. Congrats!

[WEISNER]

Notice the 12 "O"clock arm and the frame on right being wider than that on the left, I am talking about the flat part of frame.
This matches my pin back L59, as does the corner and inside corner beading!
The square mark is great, besides L59, Mine is marked ~ and o.....Thanks Stu W.!!!!
Great find Kay!
Kevin

[Stu W]

Very Fine Screwback.

Hello Kay,

That's a fine L59 indeed. Had I found that one myself I might not have sent my pinback to Kevin. I'd have kept them both.

Although Kevin now owns the L59 I am going to show the reverse of, I don't think he will mind if I post a picture, as it shows other maker marks that can be found on L59 and may be of use to a member wishing to study them.

Kind regards,
Stu

[WEISNER]

Nice shot Stu, Yep... That is the cross in front of me now! Could you post an obverse shot please? So Kay and the others can see how Pin And Screwbacks can be almost twins when viewed from the front?
Kev

[Stu W]

Obverse as requested...

Hi Kev,

Only shot of the obverse I have left has some glare but hopefully it will illustrate your point.

Cheers,
Stu

[WEISNER]

Thanks Stu! I hope Kay can now see how beautiful these Rettenmeyer crosses are? Nice Quality and some of the best and oddest MM's to be found on EK1's!
Just search L59 and you will see!!!!
Kevin

[Douglas 5]

Nice one Kay .
Very interesting maker I have done some work on L/59s .
As Weisner pointed out ... this uneven centered frame trimming existed from the first cross Rettenmeier made through out all their entire production run . One strange thing I should note . One does not catch this at first glance , like with my early one I had to rotate it first to make the cutout fit !! Just as the core and top frame happen to have been put together , so 4 rotation combinations ! See picture .
As to the the 'additional marks' , Stu mentioned , I have recorded 24 different individual marks , a surprising amount and approximately 38 multiple mark combinations .

Douglas

[Chet Sowersby]

Kay, a superb example. One can fill a Riker Mount of nothing but L/59's. There are so many different inspectors marks and combinations there of. Not to mention all the differences between pin and screw backs.

Chet

[WEISNER]

Wow, Douglass! Amazing what a 90 Degree rotation can do... These Croses are a nitch in the EK1 world all in their own.
24 different marks stands alone! As for my core the Swastika sits very low in the frame, I wonder about different cores used?
Do you have any data you can share on core differences?
Kevin

[Stu W]

Low set cores...

Hi Kev,

I think you will find that most EKI have their cores set such that the bottom of the 1939 date is about 4-5 bead widths up from the horizontal beading on the 6 o'clock arm. Maker 100 (W&L) being an exception where it usually starts about 2 bead widths from the bottom. Your date is set where I would expect it to be.

On the topic of low set dates...they are also one of the characteristics of a Floch fake so if you should come across a low set date, and it's not a 100 with it's distinctive "hump" where the jump ring attaches, then you should investigate further to ensure you have not come across a Floch.

Regards,
Stu

[Douglas 5]

Well ;
The date is the normal placement , but reffering to the hight of the swastika off the core is how I read it .
The 2 frame variations and 2 core types : the two I put together in a picture demonstrate that well . The early cross on the left : thin beading and the domed Swastika , and the right low flat surfaced swastika and a wider beading .
The different marks Chet mentioned are more correctly a combination of : Inspection or assembly marks , manufacturing marks, Silver marks and repair marks . These 4 group types of marks and a hand full of pin set acquired from other suppliers are the reason for the multitude of combinations .

Douglas