DKiG from Panzer Wrap

[WWIIBuff]

Hello,

This is attached to a Panzer wrap I just acquired. Opinions would be appreciated.

John

[WWIIBuff]

DKiG on Panzer Wrap

Pic 2

[WWIIBuff]

DKiG on Panzer Wrap

Pic #3

[Eric N]

I have to agree with Bill for the same reasons. Particularly the very new look, especially the brightness of the cloth the swaz is sewn onto as well as the wreath. Also, the size of the swaz looks too small or at least not quite right.

While perhaps not absolutely definitive, the absence of the flaw on the numeral "9" is cause for suspicion. I would also expect some tarnish and/or wear on the wreath, particlularly if sewn onto a uniform.

The cross looks like the reproduction Bill has posted and well made.

Just my first impressions on this piece.

Best regards

Eric

[atcase]

Hi all,
Is it me or do these pices look more oval than round, i mean the wreath and central areas??

Ashley

[WWIIBuff]

DKiG on Panzer Wrap

Hi Guys, I appreciate your responses.

Bill - I'm a beginner so can you tell me, is the stamp flaw present on every DKiG or was it just a particular manufacturer? The thread pattern on the starburst of mine is completely different than your repro example. Being a beginner I don't know very much about these so I'll take your suggestion and check past threads too.

Eric - This wrap was in the hands of the Russians. So the possibility is very good that this DKiG was added at a later time, a well known risk with the Russian captured items. I don't mind that so much as long as it's authentic pre-1945. Could this have something to do with the good condition it's in?

Ashley - My example is not oval at all. However, the example of the reproduction that Bill was kind enough to post for us does seem to be somewhat oval looking.

Thanks again. I look forward to more input.

John

[Eric N]

Hi John

I don't know the story behind the wrap, but indeed pieces to get added or repaired to enhance the appeal of a uniform. Yes, this could have something to do with it looking the way it does.

I base my comments only on what I can see.

These are the things I see:

A bright white field beneath the swaz. This might be due to long storage or the flash on your camera. Examples I have seen typically have a more dull white field, even ones that are in mint condition.

A swaz that doesn't appear to fill out the white field and looks thinner than what one might expect for a 1945 or earlier piece. The ends of the swaz you show don't seem to extend all the way up to and under the wreath.

The wreath doesn't appear to have any toning whatsoever. Again, this might be due to long storage or the flash of your camera.

The missing flaw on the 9 is suspect, but I'm sure there are true original examples that do not have this flaw.

When it comes down to it consider the source and compare, compare and compare some more with originals. I know that determining the originality of a piece can be an excruciatingly painful experience. I've been there a few times.


All the best,

Eric

[CSP]

Aside from the comments already made...I would add another observation: the gold wreath does not seem to have any shine. I only point this out because a similar dull brass-gold is a tell-tale characteristic of repro Honor Clasps...it is almost a plastic looking kind of gold.
Sorry that I cannot state an opinion one way or another on this cross...but I tend to agree that if it is a 'captured' wrap...these days one must be extra suspect of the bobbles seen on them...but you already suepect that yourself, so listen to your inner voice...generally if you do not feel right over it...it is not right.

[WalterB]

I have to agree with Bill for the same reasons. Particularly the very new look, especially the brightness of the cloth the swaz is sewn onto as well as the wreath. Also, the size of the swaz looks too small or at least not quite right.

While perhaps not absolutely definitive, the absence of the flaw on the numeral "9" is cause for suspicion. I would also expect some tarnish and/or wear on the wreath, particlularly if sewn onto a uniform.

The cross looks like the reproduction Bill has posted and well made.

Just my first impressions on this piece.

Best regards

Eric

I am by no means an expert on this, but I have noticed an additional thing about authentic badges and that is that the white backing behind the swastika follows a vertical and sometimes horizontal pattern (i.e., you can discern lines going vertically in some and horizontal in others. The badge you have has neither. Because of this, together with the lack of the flaw in the date, would give me good reason to get rid of this cloth badge.

[WWIIBuff]

DKiG from panzer wrap

Well I just took another look at mine and the whit backing material is definately yellowed and the gold wreath is definately tarnished. My flash must have just bleached there areas out in my pictures.

I still agree with all of you regarding the pattern of the weave and the lack of the "9" flaw. Frank H. had posted his original without flaw on another thread on the subject but his pics are no longer available. I have PM'd him and asked him to share them again if possible.

This still doesn't answer the weave pattern direction issue. Mine doesn't seem to have a row that is horizontal or vertical, rather it is more like a herringbone or some sort of weave.

I'm not feeling very good about this obviously. Would like to see Franks pics though.

John

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear John,

Here are my DKiG pics. No flaw, but indeed very different from your cross, which I think is a suspicious one.

Cheers, Frank

[Frank Heukemes]

full view pics:

[Rolf D.]

Hello,

could anybody post some pictures of one WITH the nine flaw please? Thanks!
Rolf

[Calvin Hall]

Dear John,

Here are my DKiG pics. No flaw, but indeed very different from your cross, which I think is a suspicious one.

Cheers, Frank

Frank,

I think that your cross's wreath was produced from the same dies that produced the 'flawed-nine' wreath. Yours must have been produced prior to the genesis of the flaw.

Calvin

[Calvin Hall]

This is my camera's best effort with capturing a shot of the 'flaw'. Some of the folks with better camera's will be able to provide a better photo, I am sure.

Calvin