Cloth German cross in gold, battle worn.

[Leroy]

I believe the basic badge is fine, but the wreath has either been very badly polished or, more remotely, replaced. Need more detailed photos of the wreath.

[all1knew]

Hello again,

I know we are comparing two different wreaths here, but this is the detail I expect to see on a truly battle worn example.

William Kramer

[all1knew]

Hello again,

Here are the details of mine. Yes, this one does have the flaw, and is the accepted version, but just look at the color of the one posted. The red inner and outer rings are clearly present on this one.

I know the first one shown isn't this type, but I want others to post their original examples without the flaw to compare.........they better have really thick brown "sunburst" thread as well.

William Kramer

[Robert P.]

In The Thread Posted By William - The Red Outer Ring Is Also Not Visible In Some Areas? I Think We Should Wait For Robert Pierce To Add His Comments. IN THE WORST CASE I THINK THE WREATH HAS BEEN WORN DOWN AND POSSIBLY POLISHED UP A BIT.

Tom

Thanks Tom,

But this is not an area I am familiar with. Dietrich Maerz has had considerable input into these cloth DK discussions, and I am watching and learning before stepping into buying one for my own collection. I have learned thus far that there are copies of this 'flawed' date, which has caused problems. So, for now I am learning.

Robert

[Dietrich Maerz]

Gentlemen, i really need help!!!

IMHO this is a heavily worn but original example. I have seen it very often that the swastika is slightly off center and that the metal wreath sits not perfectly. There is nothing that is unusual - other than the heavy wear.

Dietrich

[Calvin Hall]

Better photos of the wreath would be nice.

All that "battle wear" didn't result in any damage to the fabric of the star burst or the swastika. Those show very little, if any, wear. Everything except the wreath looks to be in great shape on this one. The wreath is certainly something to be concerned about.

I have several cloth crosses that have been removed from tunics, and the wreath still holds a great deal of detail. Unlike this one here.

[all1knew]

IMHO this is a heavily worn but original example. I have seen it very often that the swastika is slightly off center and that the metal wreath sits not perfectly. There is nothing that is unusual - other than the heavy wear.

Dietrich

Hello there,

I'm not on the fence with this one; that wreath is a dead-giveaway.

@ Dietrich - nothing personal, but show me some other period examples with this exact wreath on it - not to mention with similar wear/finish....

The folds on the wreath's top 12 o'clock ribbons are terrible looking and the whole thing looks like gold spray-painted metal, not tombak.

The position of the swastika doesn't look wrong at all either IMHO and isn't really off-center.

William Kramer

[Dietrich Maerz]

I vcan't give you an example of the wreath (which is not very clear in the photograph). All I can say is what I said already. IMHO it seems to be ok.

[John T]

Hello Fellow Members:

I want to thank everybody who has offered opinions on this example.

I am the seller of the cross being discussed.

It is being sold on my website at www.germanwarbooty.com and here is an exact descripton of the DKG in cloth being offered:

M1781. Army/Waffen-SS German Cross in Gold, Cloth Version, Tunic Removed. Great looking Army/Waffen-SS German Cross in Gold, Cloth Version that has been removed from a tunic. This piece has a great combat-worn look. See pictures...$ 450.00(Pictures)NEW


This Cross has a wreath less often encountered as it does not have the little bit of metal filling in the upper portion of the "9" in the date. It is not cast from another wreath as it is a totally different design. The wreath has a bright look to it as it was at one time polished leaving a shiney look, which is how I obtained the piece.

This Cross has more threads per CM in the starburst and is of a higher quality, in my opinion, then the crosses you will find with the "flaw" in the "9" as more effort was put into the hand embroidery. I have had over 75 cloth DKGs (and a number of silver ones even though I know they were never supposed to have existed) and over 20 metal ones in the last 10 years and I have examined many more so I can only offer my opinion based on what I have seen and I respect the views of all others.

I was asked by the starter of the thread who was interested in purchasing the piece to post close-ups of the wreath and I will do so, although I advised him that if he any doubts about the piece that he should pass on the piece and hold out for an example with the "flaw" in the "9" even though, as I mentioned to him, I had no reservations whatsoever about this cross being original.

I will now take some close-ups of the wreath and post them.

John

[Leroy]

I am afraid I am, now, on the fence about this one. I HATE digital photography and the inability to see an item in person. At this point, several valid points have been made, but I just cannot finally make up my mind. There are good points (the swastika, the backing circle to the swastika, the red cording, the silver wire surround cord, the silver "star highlighting" cord) and bad (the "star thread" - a bit "flat" for me, and the wreath - very "glittery"). Here is a photo of a worn Army cross on a tunic (sad how moths seem to love the backing material on these):

[John T]

Here are some closeups.

I am sorry but my camera is a cheap Olympus that cost me about 200 dollars and does not take good shots at an up close distance.

[John T]

2

[John T]

3...I have seen crosses with oxidation and flaking to the wreath.....perhaps this has a better base metal...I do not know?

[John T]

detail 4...

[John T]

Sorry, but the close-ups are coming up blurry on the metal part as you can see...