'18' Karl Wurster KVKI?

[Robert P.]

This cross is different in my opinion. The butts of the sword handles are obviously different. One more thing, the catchplate is smaller on this mint piece. But, like you say, there are some similarities.

Robert

[Frank K]

That's right Robert and maybe I'm seeing ghosts.

Just wondering how come that the fakers have the same hinge and a round plate under the catch when so few of the original makers used plates?

Plus in the sideway view the pin is shaped and soldered to the hinge the same way as the 13/18's?

[Robert P.]

That's right Robert and maybe I'm seeing ghosts.

Just wondering how come that the fakers have the same hinge and a round plate under the catch when so few of the original makers used plates?

Plus in the sideway view the pin is shaped and soldered to the hinge the same way as the 13/18's?

Original makers used catch plates on their zinc badges, and the wider-based hinges as these to create a larger area for soldering. This setup is quite common on original pieces.

You know, I studied the two pin stamps closely to be sure that the '3' was not an '8', and vise versa. But, I believe they are a '3' and an '8'. You would think that they would have at least picked two makers that made period KVKI's.

Robert

[bikerboyzx6r]

Personally, I think its 13!
Dan

[Robert P.]

Here's the '13'...

Robert

[G.J.B]

Regarding the pictures of the maker marked 18 and 13 badges... the pictures shown are of the same badge.

If you look very closely at the obverse and reverse pictures of both badges you can see marks and scratches on the finish that are in the same places on both badges.

If some one can post the obverse and reverse pictures side by side you will see what I mean.

The pictutes were taken at different angles and in different light but you can clearly see the marks and scratches on the finish are in the same places on both badges.

The maker mark also looks different due to the different angles the pictures were taken... thats why the 8 and 3 look different.

Gary

[Robert P.]

Here, Gary, check this out. There's a possibility...

Robert

[G.J.B]

Thanks Robert... Even the marks and scratches on the pin are the same.

Gary

[Robert P.]

Good observation. Gary. Like you say, the lighting may have caused the optical illusion to the maker's marks. I see the same details. This cross has really made it's rounds. It was in our archives, and also offered to a dealer, whom I posted it for.

Robert

[Frank K]

Good eyes, Gary I noticed they were very similar but not that similar...

It doesn't change however that this is a fake imo, 13, 18 or anything else.
The maker is not a known kvk1 maker and the setup on the back doesn't match any period setup.

I've included the one below. Same setup and just as fake. Believe it was posted here before but can't find the thread, so it's just the photo's. Thanks to the original poster.

[Frank K]

and one more: