Ek2, kvk2 + ? cross on ribbon bar?

[bratwurstdimsum]

Hi there,

Sorry for the double post but I thought you brains on the crosses forum will be able to get me a quicker answer than the KM guys

Complete thread is here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=266591

I believe this to be a real ribbon bar worn by probably a vet post 1945 as there appears to be some post war service medals. The ek2 probably saw a little too much wear and through the gentleman's attempts at denazification he decided it was best to paint the whole thing.

Question is what is the other cross and if you guys can pop on over the the link above and id the medals that would be a very nice thing to do!

Comments (any) are welcome!

[R. Schmitt]

... a real ribbon bar worn by probably a vet post 1945

I wanna see a German WW2 Vet wearing his medals after war ended - that would be a first for me!

That EK2 looks like a one piece cast zincer IMO...
KR
Rainer

[bratwurstdimsum]

I wanna see a German WW2 Vet wearing his medals after war ended - that would be a first for me!

That EK2 looks like a one piece cast zincer IMO...
KR
Rainer

Well that's why they are denaz or facing down, what do you think 1957 awards are for? Thanks for your opinion.

[bratwurstdimsum]

...also bundeswehr vets were always wearing their medals to formal occasions.

here is a whole thread dedicated to the vets and medals post war

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=128393

[Adrian]

I have to agree with Rainer, the loop looks like its moulded as part of the frame and the pock marks down on the bottom arm don't look promising and also the 'webs' on the inner corners of the frame...

[bratwurstdimsum]

You have no arguement with me about it being zinc or a similar non-standard cross material, so does this mean it is definitely not wartime or was wartime manufacture allowed to get to this level?

I just don't see why if a faker wanted to do this would he use such a gawdawful example and paint it the way he did, also why group it with postwar medals, esp these ones?

I'll be the first one to admit a bad investment but I don't know, it just feels like a proper grouping, perhaps not the chaps original medals but a grouping non the less.

[bikerboyzx6r]

Hi mate

In my opinion, this is not original... Normally you can count around 36-38 small ribs on one arm as shown below. Yours only has 34 at my count.

I read this in a Lumsden book & also have had it told to me by a reputable dealer.

I hope this helps... and remember this is my opinion on what I have learnt.

Regards
Dan

[bratwurstdimsum]

You are right it is 34.

Found this interesting conversation through between Adrian and Gordon:

Hello All,

As I understand, some Iron crosses made late in the war were made with zinc frames. I`ve never seen any, does anyone own such a piece or have any pictures of this type of cross??

Thanks in advance,
Best regards,
Adrian.

Yes, they did exist, some being one-piece, but they are early pre-LDO, not late. I have some photos of a zinc EK2, court mounted. I'll dig them out and post them later.

[bikerboyzx6r]

Hmm... Zinc this.... Pre this...... One piece that.... all gone over my head now

Dan

[McCulloh]

I think its a real post 1954 piece. I can dimly remember going with Onkel Hans to some sort or reunion in 1966 in K-Town and my dad took pictures. I have a distinct recollection of beer mugs the size of my arm.
Some of the older men were wearing bars like these in the photos.
Germany didn't become rabidly anti-military until the mid-1980s.
Before then people left well enough alone. They just didn't talk much about the war, unless you asked.

For the record I doubt the EK is pre 1945. One could easily buy "original" EKs-repros in the 1960s-even in the BRD. This to my eyes is a crude "wearer's copy".
The police did arrest you if you displayed the swastika-and still do.

I'd bet the KVKx is real though-they were only $3 in 1975.

Quite a nice obscure vets bar I think. The vets 39-45 medal is worth more than the rest put together. You rarely see these vanity private purchase tid-bits; they weren't popular .

Tony Colson would have adored that bar.

[Adrian]

You are right it is 34.

Found this interesting conversation through between Adrian and Gordon:

I'm not sure what your point is, no-one is denying the existance of these crosses but the example you have posted has so many flaws, made even clearer in the last pic posted that I fail to see the cross in question being anything other than a poorly cast fake. There is just no quality. The paint job could have been done by anybody, including the seller. The EK ribbon is wrong and I have my doubts on the KVK ribbon as well.
The bar might have been a genuine '57 medal bar that someone has tried to make better by adding 3rd Reich decorations to. Unfortunately the replacement EK hasn't done it any favours.

[bratwurstdimsum]

Thanks for the comments McCulloh, Adrian & Dan. Adrian, I meant no slight, I know nothing of the zinc eks and saw your conversation with Gordon so I put it up. Thanks to all your comments.

I can draw the conclusion that it is a vet put together in order to wear around. It is from probably a genuine kvk, a bunch of medals from his kuffhauserbund (or vets association) perhaps, and a definitely a fake ek2.

I'm 100% sure its not a grouping meant to deceive collectors because of its low end worth even if we were fooled. No one will go to the trouble of putting together a court-mounted ribbon bar and put such a horrible ek2 THEN try to denazify it and paint it...it just doesn't make sense.