Mismatched Medals and Cases?

[Stahlhelm]

Hello everyone:

I now have the opportunity to buy a very nice cased, maker-marked War Merit Cros with Swords 1st Class. The medal itself is the earlier tombak, nickel/silver-covered type, in exactly the condition I like, with a really nice darker tone in the recesses, making all the details stand out just right. The case is also in great shape.

Okay, now here's the part that's making me dismiss it, at least currently:

The box has the name of a medal maker stamped on the inside of the case. However, the number on the medal is a number that does not match up with the maker name on the case. So, unless there's something I don't know about medals and cases, I'm assuming that the case is not the one in which the medal was originally issued. Since this is just an assumption (logical as it is), I'd still like to check it with others, before I dismiss this otherwise nice example of a cased medal. Yes, of course, I would go ahead and buy it anyway, if it was appropriately discounted for the mismatch. However, at $350.00, I don't really see any discounts. Instead, it seems to me that the price reflects a medal in such condition, also in a case that matches the maker name.

Finally, how do you think the average collector values or devalues a mismatched medal like this? Is it common to just put a medal in whatever maker's case you can get, and just be happy with it, without much devaluation of the set as a whole. Or, is this something that you would advise one to pass on--especially taking the price into consideration? I can see the point of it not mattering if, of course, the maker name is not stamped on the case. However, when it is, it seems to be a problem. Otherwise, I'd say that most collectors would just be happy to get about whatever they could find?

Chris

P.S. Maybe this is all just a no-brainer, and mismatched maker-marked medals and cases are just a commonly-known no, no. However, in this hobby, it seems that it's always better to ask first, sometimes even before assuming the obvious.

[Darrell]

This type of practice (among collectors) is more common than you think. Most times the case is unmarked and there is no real way of saying they left the factory together. As for "de-valued". I would guess to some degree, especially more so than a match.

What are the name and number? It wouldn't be totally unheard of for some companies to "share" resources ...

[Stahlhelm]

Thanks, Darrell!

The Medal is marked "84" for Carl Poellath Schrobenhausen, and the case has "Kerbach & Oesterhelt Dresden A 1" stamped on the lower left side of the inside top of the case.

How's that for a $350.00 example, otherwise in great condition?

The idea of "sharing resources" is exactly what I was considering myself. I just didn't know if they ever really did that this way, with maker-marked medals and cases.

Chris

[Darrell]

Hi Chris, I`m unaware of any connection between these two companies. Probably both married later in life.

However, they may be worth more separate than as a group. A named case is what alot of collectors value highly. Maybe even to complete a match themselves.

Also, what type of lid stencil does the case have ... is it solid or is it the earlier detailed variety ?

[Mike H]

.

Darrell is quite right -- collectors as well as dealers are guilty of splitting cases away from badges (after they have been together for decades) and selling them separately to make more money. This devalues, in my view, the historical and originality aspect of it.

I had something similar happen to me early in my collecting career. I bought an EK1 from a well-known dealer and author and found later than the L number didn't agree with the maker's name stamped inside the case. I sent it back to him. Of course, he knew what he was selling and I never ordered anything from him again. As one new to the hobby at the time, I was quite offended by this practice.

Of course, you could buy this medal with case -- and then look for the proper one for each. Though not an "original" mating, it is much more acceptable to collectors like me. We all buy cases to go with our badges -- but no mismatched ones like you are speaking about.

And remember, rationalizing will always be that. There may have been "shared resources" but in the end, it probably wasn't.

Mike

[Steve Campbell]

The price is approaching what each piece would bring seperatly. KVK 1 aren't much cheaper than EK1 cases really. Here's how I look at it: (without seeing pictures) The medal is a quality tomback piece, so it's worth buying. The cases are at least 100-150 and this one is marked by a maker, which in my mind makes it alot nicer than an unmarked case. If you can afford it grab it. You have a tomback KVK1 and a marked case. Display it together and down the road match it up with a cross that fits the case. Some people will say thats wrong but unless you can prove an item has been together since the war, alot of cased sets are questionable. If the items are genuine I don't have a problem with it. Thisnis a long term hobby and you will get a KVK1 that matches that case eventually.

[Darrell]

The price is approaching what each piece would bring seperatly. .

That depends on the condition of the case and if it is the older `detailed`stencil on the top.

Chris do you have any pics ?

[Steve Campbell]

That depends on the condition of the case and if it is the older `detailed`stencil on the top.

Chris do you have any pics ?

I did say (without seeing any pictures) in my post.

[Stahlhelm]

The only photos I have to look at are the dealer photos on the website. I'd send you a link directly to it if I could, but all links only go to the website's homepage. If you'd like to take a look, it's on this website, a few items down the Iron Cross section. None of the photos show the top of the box, so I don't know what type of stenciling is used.

http://www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com/

Thanks again,

Chris

[Larry Lipps]

Addressing this as a more general issue, I think mismatched metals and cases is running rampant. Years ago I seem to remember cased Iron Crossses being the exception rather than the rule. Now it's hard to find a cross without a case.

[tegunn]

I'd treat the transaction as two separate items, not a set. Determine if they are both individually genuine, then find the correct case later in your quests. But collectors do "build" sets. Generally the real opportunity you get a matching medal/case is as part of a convolute from a family, etc...

[Frank K]

The medal itself is the earlier tombak, nickel/silver-covered type, in exactly the condition I like, with a really nice darker tone in the recesses, making all the details stand out just right.

Well I believe you'll be disappointed but if you like the condition, no problem.

About the mismatch, if that's the only kvk1 you'll ever buy it would be desirable to get a perfect match cross and case. If you plan to buy more then buy the set and match them up later on.

Only problem is that I for one have never seen a mm84 marked case but who knows?

[Stahlhelm]

Only problem is that I for one have never seen a mm84 marked case but who knows?

Well, that's certainly some good information to know! I really had no idea how difficult it might be to find a case by that particular maker. Your experience with that alone helps me greatly in my decision.

Thanks!

Chris

P.S. In general, thanks to everyone for all your opinions and advice. Everything is greatly appreciated! I can now make a much more informed decision.

[MH184]

Addressing this as a more general issue, I think mismatched metals and cases is running rampant. Years ago I seem to remember cased Iron Crossses being the exception rather than the rule. Now it's hard to find a cross without a case.

I agree !

Generally speaking a higher percentage of cased awards (Luft and EK's for a prime example) are housed in 'married' to cases.

[Stahlhelm]

The whole irony of it all is that unless there is an obvious mismatch, as in the case of the medal I posted, there is otherwise no way of knowing. In reality it is more likely than not that a medal in an unmarked case is just as likely to be a medal NOT in its original case. The difference is only in knowing it for sure or not.

Chris