KC for review

[Darrell]

......by the way, whats living in a stadium? an American term?

Damn D. You must be getting good. The German heritage is wearing off and you are now a full blooded Amerikaner

[robertdmountfor]

Yes! I can! But that doesn't mean its correct. Which it clearly is not. Not even close. You say you don't even know where to look and in the next sentence you say my book provides all this to the fakers.
Wouldn't you think that you disqualified yourself out of the discussion by your first admission?

I think your getting a little bogged down here.....'I dont know where to look' this means I have a rudimentary knowledge on RK's...I dont have your book...I dont have an interest to collect RK's...
But your book, listen very carefully, I will say this only once...will AID and HELP the fraudsters, and that my dear friend is a fact, like it or not. You can dispute it until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains.

[Darrell]

......But your book, listen very carefully, I will say this only once...will AID and HELP the fraudsters, and that my dear friend is a fact, like it or not. You can dispute it until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains.

Robert, that's like saying if you post a high resolution scan of a British Pound Note on WAF .. it will help others create counterfeit money ... sure, but just how close? ... not close enough to fool people that know what to look for. That's what Dietrich is trying to say here.

[Dietrich Maerz]

..I dont have your book...I dont have an interest to collect RK's...

So you like to talk about TWO things you have no idea about at the same time?

... I will say this only once...will AID and HELP the fraudsters, and that my dear friend is a fact, like it or not. You can dispute it until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains.

Actually, I'm turning green. You are really something!

[Darrell]

Well Dietrich, I'm all set. With your book, Dave's Money, and my old friend the "Die Maker", I'll be making Juncker RK's by the truckload next week .... absolutely perfect .. it's a snap ... no one will be able to tell the difference !

[Dietrich Maerz]

One has to realize another fact in life: at least 90% of all people who are fooled by fakes are fooled by down and dirty fakes.

There is absolutely no need for the fakers to produce real 'good fakes' (which is not possible anyway) if there is every day one guy that buys a Knights Cross on Ebay for $ 1000.- and thinks he made a deal.....not realizing that about 50.000 serious collectors did not buy it!

Dietrich

[robertdmountfor]

It really is just too hard not to reply sometimes, but this has to be my last one.
If one wishes to successfully copy, or reproduce anything at all,what does he need or require? Good knowledge, information and knowledge of the incorrect details of bad copies that have gone before.
Your quote 'you like to talk about two things you have no idea about' tries to compound ignorance of the thread, when the thread is about exactly that....the Gaining of that knowledge through your book.
Anyway, goodnight.

[Darrell]

..........If one wishes to successfully copy, or reproduce anything at all,what does he need or require? ........

The EXACT dies for one thing.

[tegunn]

It's time for a group hug...

[Darrell]

It's time for a group hug...

I don't hug grown men

[tegunn]

Dietrich (and all),
I meant by no means any criticsm of your intent of your book-it's a really good
one and I'm happy it's in my library!. I was just trying to point out is that with the collector's desire to have the best data/ information in detecting fakes(your book falls in this category) ,the sad truth is that there will always be some who uses the information to improve on their fake producing craft. One source is not the only source. I've scratch-built model ships and rarely does anyone use one set of plans, especially when one begins disecting the subject 3 dimensionally. The same for RK or anything the forgers pick. It's naive to think it's not beyond technology and anyone's desire to try to make a better forgery. The early copies were simple to detect, cheaply made solid casts but have slowly moved more complex constuction (mainly using the original techniques). It's not hard to find cheap-very skilled labor, take a look at the Seiko/Breitling fake/ knock-off watches coming out of Asia-they're good.

So my cross, is the thought Schickle perhaps?

[Marc Garlasco]

You guys are such CRYBABIES! My God man, knowledge is POWER - and now the collector has it! The faker has always had it in real RKs.

Schmucks... You rather be ignorant? WHY do we have any books? To help the bad guys? IGNORANCE is where you live boys.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Your cross seems to have a Schickle core but one would need to have better pictures or even have it in hand. The frame is clearly not from any of the accepted manufacturers.

IMHO it is impossible to fake - lets say - a Juncker. There are so many minor fingerprints to copy it is impossible to recreate them. Just look at the picture of the center! A new die would create a maybe pristine resemblance of those details but not the real thing.

But we can argue till the cows come home - the last 62 years have proven that it is not possible and it will not be possible in our live time. This is my absolute firm conviction. And I am by far not the only one!

Since hundreds of years fakers have tried to copy ancient coins and other other things - only to prove that it is not possible! One might be able to fool 80% but not all!

As I said - fakers don't need my book! They just fake a cross and sell it to the people who are not willing to study but rather want to make a fast and cheap buy....

[Edgar Estrada]

This is not instant learning. You will learn with time. Start by searching on the forum for original knights crosses. Juncker had their own design in the details and so did Zimmermann. Same with S&L and K&Q. If you on top of all have the RK book written by Dietrich it should not be a problem.

Peter

Hi Peter

As you know I have asked and asked information to learn about the KC to many people here in the forum (Dietrich, David M, Gordon Williamson, Mike K, YOU etc). I also have read a lot of hours the information in this forum, but still it is very hard for me to tell what is a fake and what not. Every time I see a KC for rewiew a try to find out by mysefl before reading the answers.

This time I was looking the pictures of this KC very carefull and I thought it was a GOOD ONE (not 100 % sure). But then all, every one say NO, it is a fake (of course a good fake)


So, please believe me when I said that even reading and asking a lot, it is still very hard for ME (a begginer), to see what is a fake and what not.

Then, please if anyone wants to give us some information about how you find out what is wrong with this cross I will be glad to read it and learn a bit more.

Regards

Edgar

PS: Now back to my homework, I will search for a Schinkle kc to see the core.

[tegunn]

I concur Edgar. I withheld my assessment until I heard some points (pro's/cons). The center in my view resembles Schickle. I do admit the frame wear makes it difficult to ID. What kind of threw me was the frame flaws (evidenced at the 6'oclock arm) where you can make out some of the "bridging" which implies S & L.
I'll probably hold off for a more "stronger" contender..