Originally posted by Howard Kelley
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Lots of photos....but should help? -
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Opinions Needed on Cross in Gold
Well
Could anybody tell me why it should be any dots on the 1941?
I have collect since in the mid of 70s and its first now on the late 90s this cross have come up.
AndyComment
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Andy,Originally posted by AndyC View Post
Until a few months ago, I never knew these were around. I've spoke to many of the "old timers", and they have no problem with these pieces.
As for myself, I'd rather own a non-dotted date.
Maybe someone will find some documentation of these in wear, or some documentation establishing these as period made items. Until then, these will always be a subject of discussion. I'm still open to new information.
Cheers,
HowardComment
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Way back before the SEM tests on these, I was with Darrell on these being legit, and still believe them to be genuine. There are numerous other examples of companies using different dies during the war (ex Juncker pilots badges), and I think this is just another example of that...Comment
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I don't know ... why was the L/12 800 RK once thought to be fake? Or the flawed "A" Type S&L?Originally posted by AndyC View Post
No one has all the answers. Those that think they do only spread damaging speculation.Comment
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Howard,
Your frined's 'dotted' German Cross is a beautiful example which I would be proud to have in my own collection.
They have been found in veteran buys, like the example owned by Ron Weinand, and I am aware of others that were brought back from the war.
Questioning anything is a healthy exercise, but when every test determines no differences between the 'dotted' type and undotted type, one must follow the evidence to the conclusion that they are authentic.
Why Steinhauer and Lueck use different 800 punches? Why did juncker use different L/12 punches? Of course, not only one man was doing the inspection and markings, so it would be logical to have multiple tools.
I have always believed the 'dotted' German Crosses were later war pieces and the dots resulted from the re-furbishing of the dies, to clean out debris and sharpen detail. However, this is yet to be proved.
Bob HritzIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.Comment
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Originally posted by Bob Hritz View Post
Hello Bob,
The cross belongs to my buddy John K., I'm sure he'll have it at the SOS. Knowing him....I'm sure he will be willing to trade the cross for a nice helmet.
Just goes to show that even when you've been collecting militaria for many years.......you can always learn something new! Keeping an open mind and looking for the facts is something we all should strive to achieve. This hobby is a minefield, and being skeptical is "self-defense" against all the fakes. However, making unfounded comments without supporting information (as Darrell has mentioned), clouds objective remarks which may help us and this hobby grow. Contributor's like you have helped many of us (including myself) grow in this hobby and become better collectors.
Thanks and Best Regards,
HowardComment
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Originally posted by Howard Kelley View Post
Here Here !
I'm as suspicious and leary as anyone. If something doesn't seem right, I say so. Use a scientific approach. If that fails the test, then deem the item bad. I agree 100%.
People with personal vendettas or alterior motives need to stick to some other hobby. Maybe something in the future will prove 100% this way or that regarding these DK's. BUT .. until that time arrives, stick with what we know it is ... and what it isn't.Comment
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To hear that there have been these 'dotted date' crosses found in period groupings personally gives me more confidence in these crosses now, especially coupled with the SEM testings. I confess, I don't know how to discern the scientific findings that were posted in the pasted thread/link, so I have to lean to other's opinions on this. I'm beginning to come out from my turtle shell, and I appreciate the extra encouragement you all are giving us. This is another case on parallel with the Juncker 'SW68 stamp' scare years ago, and I have been paralized by it (the dotted dates crosses, not the SW68 stamp). I want to thank you all for your persistance. It's done me good. I looked at the pin assemblies of these badges, the dotted dates, the wreaths, etc. when they came to the screens here, and I liked the cross. Then the
came. The testings were performed to disolve doubt, and prove the pieces. And from what you say, it did prove them to be original. Others have said that these began showing up in the 90's, and not seen (by them, whoever them is) before then. I like to think that we can prove originality by scientific testing. In the light of these findings, and based on the crosses that were found with dated groupings, I consent to these badges being authentic. The evidence is too overwhelming to ignore. You all have convinced me. I stand with those who stand on the side of scientific findings.
Robert
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Looks like the first shot has been fired
I wondered how long he could keep his fricken mouth shut
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