Ek2 Mm 84 Fake Or?

[AUSGANG]

I checked out two threads on WA about these EK2s with the MM 84 and, although both seemed inconclusive, the feeling I got is that these are contemporary fakes. The ring is stamped on both sides 84. What is the final word? Thanks in advance, Ausgang

[AUSGANG]

obverse

[AUSGANG]

reverse

[Hank C.]

I'm not real impressed with the (lack of) quality on the beading, and the "3" in 1939 isn't looking promising.

best
Hank

[Hynkel]

I think it's a fake...why has the core stamped a 1939, and not a 1813? The swas seems too "fat"...maybe a Floch?

[Robert P.]

According to the list of EKII makers, Carl Poellath '84' never made them. This piece is obviously a fake, IMO. (2) 1939's?

Robert

[AUSGANG]

Thanks to all of the responders. Sure appreciate it! Ausgang

[grueni1208]

...why has the core stamped a 1939, and not a 1813?

I wish all EK II fakes had the same distinctive feature.
The number design looks like a floch.

Regards

Grueni

[Robert P.]

I wish all EK II fakes had the same distinctive feature.
The number design looks like a floch.

Regards

Grueni

That would make things a lot easier. It's a bloomin' fake, it 'tis.

Robert

[Hank C.]

I think it's a fake...why has the core stamped a 1939, and not a 1813? The swas seems too "fat"...maybe a Floch?

...and the new guy has us all going "D'OH!" and slapping our foreheads...1939 front AND back? Not likely. F-F-F-Faaaaaaaaake!

best
Hank

[Douglas 5]

Well - very interesting indeed guys ; would like to see it in hand to be able to say without a doubt, ....it is most likely a post war production due to the refurbishing technique and the 2 paints , the closed 4 , the partial maker identification , the fat beading with shallow valleys and the incorrect 1939 reverse date that were used ???

And now for the unexpected surprise - gentlemen !
Who ever did this , attempted to make it look like a real EK2 by refurbishing an original frame die . The core , I have not found anything matching .

Thanks again to Robert for one of his previous detailed pictures , which is of use here again .
This frame has matching flaws and marks - to Robert's ! Only used one major frame and 2 bead flaws , there are other finer ones on the frame .

The original frame die is a 23 !
Picture comparison show the matching flaws .
23 did work for other makers , .. is it certain 84 did not make any EK2's , or could it be a rejected periode core variant ???? Just a thought .

Regards , Douglas

[Robert P.]

I'd like to have it in my hand too, Douglas. Maybe you can count better than I, but I count a different numbers of beads on the bottom of the 6:00 arm on cross #1 and cross #2. Please check and see what you come up with.

Robert

[Douglas 5]

Well Robert the bead count matches , but that is not the problem !!!!!!

The problem is that pic 2 and 3 are the same frame side with the swastika colored out . Looks like some one has tampered with the picture .
All frame white and dark spots are the same on both sides .
The white spot under the 1 matches so does the thin white lines above 39 !!!!
Right arm on the inside bead , a slip with the paintbrush !!!

Ausgang , do you have this cross or only the pictures ?????

Douglas

[AUSGANG]

Those are the only photos that I was sent. After posting, I realized that the photo of the reverse is just a denazified photo of the obverse. Pretty dumb of me not to examine the photo more closely! I may be a FNG but that should have made me wonder. I'm steering clear of the whole deal, too screwy. Stamped 84 means fake to me now...

[AUSGANG]

This just in from the seller in regards to my decalration that this cross is fake:

Are you sure, because I had a very respected dealer look at this one, and she said it was authentic.

This was her report:

"Iron Cross 2nd Class stamped 84 (Carl Pellath):
This EK is definitely authentic, and by a fairly rare maker. I'd value it at $150 retail considering the shortened and soiled ribbon.....which is not unusual but it does hurt the value a little. Let me know if you're willing to sell it. I usually only offer wholesale which is 50% of retail in the world of antiques, but I'd be willing to give back the $100 MO if you'll agree to sell it."