Clearing up an urban myth about EK's in WW2

[Seigfried]

Did the 'worth' of an EK become devalued as the war progressed
were they used as morale boosters towards the end and given out as such?

I feel that this could be said of almost any award. Take the RK for example (as records exist). I have taken these numbers from Williamsons book:
RK recipients:
1940: 440
1941: 384
1942: 952
1943: 1398
1944: 2448
1945: 1147 (if this rate had been maintained for 12 months there could have been a total of 2752 for 1945).
It stands to reason for me that as the fighting became more desperate, more soldiers performed acts of valour. As the RK recipients increased, so did EK2, EK1 etc.

[Simon O.]

I feel that this could be said of almost any award. Take the RK for example (as records exist). I have taken these numbers from Williamsons book:
RK recipients:
1940: 440
1941: 384
1942: 952
1943: 1398
1944: 2448
1945: 1147 (if this rate had been maintained for 12 months there could have been a total of 2752 for 1945).
It stands to reason for me that as the fighting became more desperate, more soldiers performed acts of valour. As the RK recipients increased, so did EK2, EK1 etc.

The fighting spread and the German armed forces grew in numbers up to 1944.

For example, as far as the Heer goes, 1940 saw the Norwegian campaign (2 months, relatively small force) and the French\low countries campaign (less than 2 months). In total the German army was in active combat for less then 3 months in that year (9 april until 25 June). lots of success so lots of medals.

[FW 200]

Not trying to change the subject, but does anyone know if the Pope got the EK? I read he was an artillery helper late in the war. Also, my grandfather got his in Nov., 1916, and always told us it was a great honor to get one.

[CWP]

I met a former member of the Fallschirm-Panzer-Regiment "Hermann Goering" who served in East Prussia in 1945 as an Obergefreiter and machine gunner. He was awarded both grades of EK. He doesn't know why he got the EK1, he believes that it was because he was the machine gunner. Everyone in his unit had the EK. I contrast this to the accounts in Kurowski's "Infantry Aces" where the EK1 is awarded for great heroism. It seems clear to me that the criteria were lowered late in the war.

[peter u]

Hello,

Very intresting thread!

We don't have to forget that medal awardsystems are also a propaganda tool.


Sorry to go off topic.
The Belgian army bravery awardsystem is one that works with citations.
All vetrans from both world wars have practicly the same medals.
Because the "croix de guerre" is awarded as a campagne medal, all participating soldiers got one, but it can come with a citation for individual bravery also.
This is very intresting for collectors, because the Belgian "croix de guerre" awarddocuments have the citation listed: campagne participant, wia , kia, individual bravery or a mix of these.

Cheers,
Peter

[Simon O.]

I met a former member of the Fallschirm-Panzer-Regiment "Hermann Goering" who served in East Prussia in 1945 as an Obergefreiter and machine gunner. He was awarded both grades of EK. He doesn't know why he got the EK1, he believes that it was because he was the machine gunner. Everyone in his unit had the EK. I contrast this to the accounts in Kurowski's "Infantry Aces" where the EK1 is awarded for great heroism. It seems clear to me that the criteria were lowered late in the war.

Remember that in order to get the EKI you had to have the EKII, therefore it's natural that a larger amount of them (along with the ehrenblattspange and DKiG) were awarded during the latter part of the war.

i was looking at some statistics a while ago and noticed that awards of the clasps to the EKII and I tailed off as the war progressed. The reason being, those that could qualify already got them earlier in the war.

[Peter Wiking]

I met a former member of the Fallschirm-Panzer-Regiment "Hermann Goering" who served in East Prussia in 1945 as an Obergefreiter and machine gunner. He was awarded both grades of EK. He doesn't know why he got the EK1, he believes that it was because he was the machine gunner. Everyone in his unit had the EK. I contrast this to the accounts in Kurowski's "Infantry Aces" where the EK1 is awarded for great heroism. It seems clear to me that the criteria were lowered late in the war.

Remember that the situation for Germany and the German soldier had changed dramaticly in late 1944. A Norwegian veteran who joined the Waffen-SS and fought all the way to Berlin, writes that they had no trucks in spring 1945. The PAK (antitank gun) they had in his small unit, had to be dragged by human power towards Berlin. Leaving it behind was out of the question. This gun was the only tool they had to stop Russian armour.

No German soldier had to drag his artillery by hand in the first half of the war. Late in the war he had no option. A soldier like our veteran above could well get, along with his comrades, an Iron Cross for an act like that, and there was many similar ones late in the war. Doing your duty as a soldier and beyond is more than just spilling enemy blood.

Peter

[Robert P.]

Remember that the situation for Germany and the German soldier had changed dramaticly in late 1944. A Norwegian veteran who joined the Waffen-SS and fought all the way to Berlin, writes that they had no trucks in spring 1945. The PAK (antitank gun) they had in his small unit, had to be dragged by human power towards Berlin. Leaving it behind was out of the question. This gun was the only tool they had to stop Russian armour.

No German soldier had to drag his artillery by hand in the first half of the war. Late in the war he had no option. A soldier like our veteran above could well get, along with his comrades, an Iron Cross for an act like that, and there was many similar ones late in the war. Doing your duty as a soldier and beyond is more than just spilling enemy blood.

Peter

This would fall under the domain of 'meritorious service', would it not? Unless, of course, it was performed during the heat of battle with threat to human life involved, where it would be considered a 'brave act.'

Robert

Robert

[DaveNZ]

This would fall under the domain of 'meritorious service', would it not? Unless, of course, it was performed during the heat of battle with threat to human life involved, where it would be considered a 'brave act.'

Robert

Im not so sure: Hanna Reitsch got awarded the EK1 and as far as i am aware she was never involved in any combat missions.

[p-verstegen]

I think that 27% is a much too high number! There must be statistics over this somewhere!

you have to split 27% in two .

ek2 fore the living surviver ,and those ek's who died fighting.

there many ek's gooing to the dead.
the man who stand and fight as ordered . ( and died )

lets say,, 27% off the number who died over the years 1939 to 1944 where given one ek 2

you got a lott off ek's 2 .

gr hagahr

[DonC]

Great thread! I personally believe that EK's were awarded more liberally as the war progressed as a morale-boosting tool (I am not saying they were passed out like candy, but rather were awarded for actions -individually or as a unit-type award- that might not have been viewed as meriting an award earlier on in the conflict). Remember what Napoleon said - "Give me enough ribbon(s) and I can conquer the world."

Don

[Robert P.]

Great thread! I personally believe that EK's were awarded more liberally as the war progressed as a morale-boosting tool (I am not saying they were passed out like candy, but rather were awarded for actions -individually or as a unit-type award- that might not have been viewed as meriting an award earlier on in the conflict). Remember what Napoleon said - "Give me enough ribbon(s) and I can conquer the world."

Don

Just watching the German-produced movie 'Stalingrad' this is evident. But also in the movie a particular soldier knew the ploy to morale-boosting, and refused to button his top button in formation to receive his unteroffizier rank promotion. The soldier's mind was set on making it out of the war alive, not on whether he won a medal or not. Food for survival was the objective, not an EKII. Everyone ought to see this movie...'Stalingrad' by Fox Lorber.

Robert