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**Frank Heukemes** · 01-21-2002, 02:12 PM

Hi Rodney,

Here is the link to the German auction house Hermann Historica that Claudio mentioned:
http://www.hermann-historica.com/

Cheers, Frank

**IFreigeist** · 01-21-2002, 10:01 PM

Iron Cross 2nd Class 1939

The same goes with auction houses as goes with retail/wholesale dealers, mentioned in an earlier post. I got two great deals on eBay, but having been into collecting Third Reich militaria for nearly 25 years, these are not avenues to which I'd send a novice to start.

I tacitly avoid auctions as much as possible to stay out of "bidding wars" or "bid shilling/sniping". I'm also wary of the following "descriptive" phrases; "vet acquired", "vet bringback", "acquired from veteran's estate", and "I have no idea what this is/may be/how much it's worth/I'm not familiar with military items/militaria".

I can say that of all the auction houses and retail/wholesale dealers from whom I've purchased, I've never been burned on an Iron Cross 2nd Class buy, 1914 or 1939.

One source I found was, strangely enough, the higher-reputation reproduction dealers who sell to the re-enactor market segment. Bill Bureau carries original items as well as reproductions, and his e-mail is Billsmili@aol.com. Another solid dealer is Richard Mueller, who can be reached at rcmuller@erols.com. I've had good experience with both.

**Mark S.** · 01-21-2002, 10:11 PM

25 years?

Im sorry, you gave me the impression you were just starting out, hence my advice on staying away from the auction houses, the reasons why, Doug summed up quite eloquently.

Any thoughts or advice on reproduction 2nd class crosses, or my possible purchase of originals in the future?

Now I am just confused. After 25 years you cant find an ek2?

**IFreigeist** · 01-21-2002, 10:27 PM

Iron Cross 2nd Class 1939

Sorry if I gave that impression. Over the years, I've seen the number of fakes and forgeries blossom exponentially. What's more, the rise of World War Two re-enacting has generated niche markets and sellers who strive to offer bigger and better reproductions, some of which fall into the hands of those who unscrupulously sell them as originals, or, in some cases, are simply fooled by high-quality workmanship. I was amazed at the high quality of Knight's Cross reproductions, at this time being offered for sale as reproductions, available in three piece construction with either silver plated or 800 solid silver frames, and marked "L/12", and wondered if 2nd Class medals were being reproduced in three pieces and sold as well. There aren't many Third Reich items that haven't been reproduced, and those that haven't are generally not cost-effective to do so. The EK2 has the dichotomous dilemma of being both a very popular item and one that was manufactured and issued in millions during 1939-1945. Just a question. Those who have responded to this topic have been helpful, at least to me.

**Warren O** · 01-21-2002, 11:16 PM

The excellent EKII repro I've seen and handled was marked 333 also 666 on the ring, incuse. The let down on these crosses is the lack of sharp detail the ribbon doesnot have the correct dense weave of an original, the ribbon ring is to thin and large and the finish of the frame is to flashy and ages to a gold tone.
Still these crosses would fool the new guy easily and the experienced if he didn't pay attention.....' just another EK'.
Warren

**IFreigeist** · 01-24-2002, 11:50 AM

Iron Cross 2nd Class 1939

I recently checked out eBay, and it's vindicated what has been stated in this forum. There are several fakes, forgeries {along with the usual fabricated stories...} and repaints. There's even one that looks like it was dug from the ground {probably an original}.

One historical factor about the 1939 Iron Cross 2nd Class as opposed to its counterpart, the 1914 Iron Cross 2nd Class... The "EK2 1939" was produced 1939-1945, while the "EK2 1914" was produced, basically, 1914-1945. That was one of the factors in my checking out 1939-issue medals.

**ERIC S.** · 01-25-2002, 02:48 PM

I too have seen the large thin ribbon ring type marked "666" - the ribbon, as Warren O stated, was wrong - Very convincing if you did't know what to look for though!

**IFreigeist** · 02-04-2002, 10:17 PM

East European Forgeries!!!

Well, I now have in my possession a fake three-piece Iron Cross 2nd Class 1939. A few minor details for which to keep an eye out... 1) The suspension ring on the medal is half as thick as an original; very thin indeed!, 2) The hallmark on the ring is nearly un-discernable... Unclear, it looks like the two numbers were stamped into the ring seperately, using a die-punch, and are not in the German style, 3) The actual Iron Cross is discernable through the frame... As if the frame was severely mis-struck and mis-matched upon welding together, 4) The beading on the frame is very low-relief and "curved" as opposed to "squared", 5) There are slight spill-overs on the inside of the frame, which look as if the cross itself may have either been painted or re-painted once in the frame.

The medal measures 44mm by 44mm, and looks a lot like someone has taken a moulding of an original medal and constructed a reproduction, much in the same way that Third Reich belt buckles have been "re-manufactured" in recent years. While my source shal remain a secret, I am aware that there are numerous reproductions of Third Reich items of a much higher standard than in the past being manufactured in Hungary. As several posts mentioned earlier, this piece is relatively easy to pick out as a likely fake because it really just doesn't look right.

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Iron Cross 2nd Class 1939

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