RK of the Youngest Recipient

[AndreM]

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[AndreM]

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[AndreM]

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[AndreM]

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the cross

[Dirk S.]

I was dubious about these items....the EKII document has the wrong date, the award was given on 12th August 1943. The original document is still in the posession of Herr Hermes, here is an image of it. It is signed by his CO, and not a Generalleutnant. The RK and the rest of the grouping, have been reunited with him also.

Hallo Harry,

A lieutenant 1. class was not "verleihungsberechtigt" for the Iron Cross!
Means, the Iron Cross was awarded to divisional level!

Compare also the signature of General Becker

I think i have the original paper from his Iron Cross 2. Class!

Regards
Dirk

[stdub]

@Harry

I collect documents and paper items for 20 years now.
When I see the EK2 document you show here, I have not the feeling of an original one.

As Dirk wrote, an Oberleutnant was not allowed to award an EK2 or to sign such an document.
Also the sign looks like it was made with a ball pen.
Maybe we can see a better scan or photo?

I saw this group before it was broken up and the document you show here was not part of this group, but Dirk ones was, also the badges Dirk showed.

The sign of Carl Becker on the EK2 document is absolutely okay - have no doubts about it. Just compare it with the one on the EK1 document.

Do you know who gave this EK2 document to the family??

I'm glad to hear that the group now is back in the family, but it's sad to see, that there is one document (IMO) not original - the EK2 one.

Best regards,

Joerg

[Hank C.]

...edit...
The original document is still in the posession of Herr Hermes, here is an image of it. It is signed by his CO, and not a Generalleutnant.

...edit....

I've been wrong more than enough times, but I'd still say the doc pictured REALLY looks dubious. Better pix (which I understand may not be available) would help.

best
Hank

[ChrisH]

a nice group go a long way ........... i hope it find good place now
dont understand this splitting ...........

[AFF96]

Wondeful thread

[Darrell]

Man ....... Just paranoid me, but I wouldn't take "attributed" groups for granted unless I personally got them off the recipient. Even then ... you never know what you're getting.

Now the documents are not matching up?

How come the signatures shown on each photo are not the same? Was one wartime, the other not? Did he have time to learn to write better? Hmmmm ...

[Don D.]

How come the signatures shown on each photo are not the same? Was one wartime, the other not? Did he have time to learn to write better? Hmmmm ...

see post#34.

[Darrell]

see post#34.

I read that Don, so the better writing is post war a number of years when he learned to write better?

[Billy B]

I have a question is the cross engraved with the recipients name or with an award number? If so could we see a picture. If not than how do you know that it is the original cross awarded to Hermes?

[DKig]

I seldomly see the stuff sold by Niemann being shown in WAF.
Niemann's picture of this grouping is still kept in my PC, however, today I know its owner of the grouping! splendid grouping!!

[stdub]

It's great that the family of Otmar Hermes has most of the group back in their hands.

But could we discuss which one of the EK2 documents is a fake and which one is original?

I think the family should know if they have a fake in their hands (what they have in my opinion) and they should have the chance then to complete the group with the original matching items.

Maybe Harry allows me to take his photo from the EK2 document and start a discussion in the Dokuments area? Of course a better shot would be fine.

Also it would be intersting to know where the family got the EK2 document from.

So my question: Does anybody have contact to Otmar Hermes or his family?

Joerg