Just left visiting D.N.'s site this morning. He had some very nice collections for sale this a.m., and their must have been some very wealthy sharks swimming this morning, as all were already sold. When looking at the Wurmheller grouping, I couldn't help being fascinated by the Oakleaves from this grouping. I''ve never seen anything remotely like this before. Very unique. The loop barely fit through the fat eye of the K&Q RK. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before?
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Josef Wurmheller got his Ritterkreuz on September 4th, 1941. The Ritterkreuz in the group is a Klein&Quenzer (again...) and this is by far (and I mean by far!) the earliest Klein&Quenzer ever encountered. And Hauptmann Wurmheller really took good care of it - a worn ribbon, a special attached set of oaks and not one scratch on the cross, not one! But surely a genuine K&Q.
Maybe it's my old eyes, but I can't see any "21" on the oaks. But since the "900" is on an unusual spot, maybe the "21" was under the loop. But it is better that there is no "21" since the obverse seems to be a First Type and the reverse should therefore have the usual L/50...If one takes the time and studies the oaks ....
A very unusual group!
Dietrich -
Funny
I had just assumed that these were all replacements! Did you, or anyone notice the photos of Wurmheller wearing the RK? I can't tell, but maybe others can, but once again I just assumed his Rk was an S&L or Juncker. A K&Q in 41???? I didn't think they were even making RK's in 41. Of course, I'm handicapped here because my book won't be shipped, at the earliest, until october.
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There's nothing in the text that says that the pieces are replacements. The group - that's what I read - was bought like that from the family 15 years ago.
I don't think that it is out of the ordinary that legitimate awardees bought replacement pieces, not at all. And I personally would not find it bad if it would be pointed out to a buyer that theses pieces are not the originally isseud pieces.
Now the 'special clip' Oaks are a different story. This implies that they were worn like that. And again, without going deeper into it, this is the very first time I have seen this type of oaks ...Comment
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They are unique indeed.
The loop on the Juncker KC in the Stepp grouping looks like a replacement also. I believe it is a S&L loop.Comment
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Kevin, I believe that the RK is a nice early S&L...the loop is perfect in that regard!
Regards,
DaveComment
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I think that's because the RK is an S&L, not a Juncker.Originally posted by Kevin V. View Post
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Then they must have replaced the entire cross!!Originally posted by Richard Gordon View PostI think that's because the RK is an S&L, not a Juncker.
Glad I passed on it ....
BenComment
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My mistake guys. That is why they advice me not to purchase items when I am just awake.
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Hello Kevin,
did you finally found a Zimmermann KC? Probably one with OL and Swords?
kr,
StefComment
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No Stefan, it is not that easy as I am looking for an unmarked one in the same condition but with the L/52 oval loop or a 20 marked Zimmermann with the "800" marked loop.Originally posted by StefanK. View PostHello Kevin,
did you finally found a Zimmermann KC? Probably one with OL and Swords?
kr,
StefComment
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Considering that Wurmheller was killed on the 22nd of June 1944 in his FW 190 during aerial combat with Allied fighters near Alençon (Normandy) when he collided with his wingman I don't think that this Ritterkreuz is the one he was wearing everyday as after a crash there should be some paint chips on the cross. The swords are mint which is logical as he was posthumously awarded the Schwerten and also the shoulder boards as he was promoted to the rank of Major on 24 October 1944.Originally posted by ekhunter View Post
The Oberstleutnant Stepp's grouping wasn't bad...
PierreComment
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In all fairness to Mr. Niemann, he posted in a German Forum, where I posted my thoughts about such an early and mint K&Q (and also my thoughts about the oaks and the missing 21 on a 1st Type obverse with very unique and unknown features...) that:
"Die Orden von Wurmheller sind vor 15 Jahren direkt von der Familie erworben worden. Sämtliche Orden sind Stücke,welcher in der Kriegszeit, nach dem Absturz Wurmhellers der Familie als "bleibende Erinnerung" überlassen wurden. Natürlich sind die Orden nicht die,welche er 1941 bereits hatte."
...basically saying the all the medals came directly from the family 15 years ago and all orders are pieces which were given to the family after the crash and during the war as remembrance. And "of course are the medals not the ones he possesed in 1941."
My opinion is that he should have said so since by not saying so some people might come to the conclusion that they are the original medals and the next thing is that the PKZ-numbering was already introduced Sept. 41 since there is a COA (indirectly) saying so...
There were and still are quite an amount of people who thought those are his original medals....Comment
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I wonder if the guy that shelled out the $90 Grand knows this?Originally posted by Dietrich Maerz View Post
Of course, if you can afford that kind of loot, it's probably not a big issue anyway ...Comment
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