Minty Schinkel with package marked N

[Berra]

Hi what do you think about this cross ?
Is it genuine and worth the asking price of 240euros ?
Does anyone here have any idea about the package ?

Sellers description:
A very interesting example of the early form of the Iron Cross. So called Schinkel form after the designer of the first Iron Crosses. The fine swing to the arms is the same as used on crosses from WW1.
This example in near mint condition with matt black core paint to 100% present. The beaded rims are finely frosted and the flanges polished to a mirror finish. Comes complete with its original blue wrapping paper. Paper stamped with the letter N which is, at this time, an unknown designation.

[Berra]

22

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[Berra]

33

33

[grueni1208]

It's an original Deumer Schinkel EK II, but I think the packet is from WW I.

Regards

Grueni

[Berra]

Thanks for the reply! Anyone els have any idea about the package ?

/Bjorn

[Paratrooper]

Hi!

It's right that this packages was useed in WWI. In very early wartime there was still no new packing. Therefore the Iron Crosses were packed in such a way as in WW 1.
The use of the packing from WW I was officially authorized and therefore it's also a original packing in the early wartime of WW II.

I also have a set like yours

Here's the data:

• 3 piece construction with nonmagnetic core and the frameset is made of nickelsilver
• Height: 43,3mm
• Width: 43,52mm
• Weight: 16,6 Gramm
• Height blue paper: 180mm
• Width blue paper: 200mm
• Height wax paper: 160mm
• Width wax paper: 180 mm

Regards
Andreas

[grueni1208]

This Schinkel versions are by Wilhelm Deumer from Luedenscheid.

Why there is a N on the packing?

Regards

Grueni

[Steinar]

M I N T

[Paratrooper]

This Schinkel versions are by Wilhelm Deumer from Luedenscheid.

Why there is a N on the packing?

Regards

Grueni

Hi Grüni!

The two cases -texz and my set- are different. The letter N has nothing to do on a package/paper for a cross mady by Deumer Lüdenscheid.
The maker mark N is from Neuhaus & Söhne Berlin.
This fact and the fact that generaly letters as maker marks were only used in WW 1 shows us that the package and the cross cannot belong together.

There are no doubts that the package and the cross in my collection belongs together. It's a part of a safe deduction and when you could hold it in your hands you would see that there are a number of traces which shows that this set was lying a long time together.
I knew the soldier who gave me his deduction before his dead and he told me that he was one of the soldiers which was awarded with the Iron Cross in the late month of 1939 and that the blue paper was the package of the cross. That is not a fairy tale but an absolutely true history.

The opinion which I held in my last Posting apply probably only to my set.
I think the set from texz and the Schinkel cross married on their long way to him.

BTW: Thanx Grüni for the proof that this type of Schinekl crosses are from Deumer. Many others thought that they was made by Godet. I read this old information in this forum here. Unfortunately this was only a idea without each proof.
In your very good scientific paper you show the Iron Cross second class 1914 from Deumer with many similarities to this type of the Schinkel Iron Cross from 1939.
You brought the proofs and there are no more questions left open.

Regards
Andreas
PS.: Ist nicht ganz leicht eine eine ordentliche Antwort in englischer Sprache zu verfassen. Ich hoffe, daß ich verständlich machen konnte was ich meine.

[ben bijker]

Very nice Schinkel Andreas!!

And yes, your reply was clear enough!

Ben

p.s.: PM erhalten???

[grueni1208]

Hi Grüni!
PS.: Ist nicht ganz leicht eine eine ordentliche Antwort in englischer Sprache zu verfassen. Ich hoffe, daß ich verständlich machen konnte was ich meine.

[Adrian]

PS.: Ist nicht ganz leicht eine eine ordentliche Antwort in englischer Sprache zu verfassen. Ich hoffe, daß ich verständlich machen konnte was ich meine.

LÖSCHEN SIE ALS TAG!!!

[MH184]

PS.: Ist nicht ganz leicht eine eine ordentliche Antwort in englischer Sprache zu verfassen. Ich hoffe, daß ich verständlich machen konnte was ich meine.Yes, your English is very good and it's more comprehensible than some native English speakers posts !! ; )It is true some incipient awards came packaged as above, but not by all makers. It's crosses we are concerned with here of course, and some of the early crosses came like this sure enough - not all EK2 of the Imperial period came like this also; some infact did have a proper packet/envelope too (paper and wax paper)Not only paper forms, but also linen was used too.
(settings on the WAF for me are all buggered up hence mass text !!)

[Ludwig]

Looks like a really nice set to me!
Worth the money? I will say it´s up to you. How much do you want it?
I personally think the price is OK.

[Berra]

Ludwig: I've bought the Cross but havent recived it yet so I'll guess the price was right for me :-)

I haven't seen that many Schinkel crosses in this condition so its hard to know what would be a fair price. Especialy if the dealer has priced it with the package as a original and it's not.

/Bjorn