Dipping ring S&L Knight's Cross

[Dave Kane]

Some months ago I posted a 'post war' frame which exhibited a dipped ring. I found that it matched the war time frame in many regards and postulated that this could be the reason why we see some period pictures with RK's apparently showing this feature.

Thereafter, the frame was sent to several of those interested in the possibility. Some interesting deductions were drawn. It was suggested that the S&L die produced the dipped ring BUT at 'finishing' or sometime during the manufacturing process the base of the ring was 'skived' or filed down. We never see the exact same finishing to the base of the rings of S&L Crosses.

Unfortunately, the orig. thread has gone missing!

In the meantime I obtained pictures of another S&L dipped ring '57 RK made from the original war time die affirming the above suspicions. It shows the pock/dent marks in the lower 3oc arm and several other 'fingerprints' associated with the period die.

[Dave Kane]

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[Dave Kane]

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[DavidM]

Hello Dave

Is the 57 RK shown here a first or second patterned core version? I ask as I have never (yet) seen a first pattern 57 RK with the dipping ring, whereas this is a standard feature of the second pattern.

Aside from the 'dent row' on the 3 O' clock arm, what other die flaws does this 57 RK exhibit?

Many thanks.

Regards
David

[Dietrich Maerz]

Unfortunately, the orig. thread has gone missing!

Still available:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=196370

Dietrich

[Bob Hritz]

To further confuse matters, this is a swastika version Steinhauer Knight's Cross brought back by an occupation soldier, who served from 1945 to 1953. He saw no combat and sold this cross, in the late 1950's to a collector in Illinois. The core is non-ferrous and the frames are silver, frosted and laquered. The mark is an incule relief 800. I see no 'dent row' on the 3 o'clock arms.

Bob Hritz

[Bob Hritz]

Verso

[Bob Hritz]

Eyelet and very small incuse relief 800

[Dietrich Maerz]

Bib,

I guess by specifically stating that the Veteran came back in 1953 you want to say that this frame was already in use long before the first 1957 model (which was done with the B-Type, as we know). And since the aquiring veteran was already in Germany in 1945 you are also implying (I guess ...) that this cross could very well be made before the wars end.

Also - since this frame has no dent row you can see - it either could be an A-Type with an incuse stamp (that would be a first!) or a complete new die-type.

Is that what you are thinking?

Dietrich

[Bob Hritz]

Dietrich,

I clearly believe the cross is post war. I should have said this in my first post, but thought it would be understood, by the dipping eyelet, in the frame. I only have the information that I got from the collectow who owned it, from the soldier. I was told the soldier arrived, in Germany, after the war was over and remained in Europe until 1953, when he left the service. I believe Steinhauer was producing Knight's Crosses shortly after the war for both souvenir collectors and for replacements for those who wanted one.

I do not know a time line on the cessation of the wartime damaged dies, the dent row flawed dies, the cracked and repaired dies, and creation of the dipping eyelet dies. It would be most simple to displace the material of the dipping ring, by compression, and create a better looking eyelet.

I have no delusions that this is a wartime cross, just an interesting piece of the Steinhauer and Lueck story.

Bob Hritz

[Dietrich Maerz]

Bob,

didn't think so - just asking for clarification.

Could you measure the thickness of the ring (from obverse to reverse that is) and compare it to your mint micro 800? (which - as far I could see had no marks that would indicate a removal of any 'dipping' ring feature)

Dietrich

[Dave Kane]

Still available:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=196370

Dietrich

Thanks Dietrich, but that's not the thread!

I was interested in bringing back the thread where I showed the 1/2 frame picked up on E-Bay and which subsequently went around the world for inspection and a 4 month holiday!

This one in fact....

[Dave Kane]

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[Dietrich Maerz]

I remember now - I had the frame, too. here is the 'dent row area' without a dent row.

[Dietrich Maerz]

I recall that my measurements and such showed that if the lower part would have been filed away to make this cross look like a regular S&L that most likely a gap would have appeared. This is due to the fact that the hollow ring extends well into the frame aera. As can be seen with the picture of the inside of the frame. Just not enough material.