Unmarked EKI- Maker?

[johnrtse]

Here are some pics of an EKI that I picked up from the classifieds on another web board.

Any idea who the maker is? Godet, Deumer, and Zimmerman appear to use the same style of pin. This came in a Paul Meybauer case that I have pics of in the case forum.

Thanks in advance!

[Robert P.]

C.F. Zimmermann, John. Beauty.

It could be a Godet, they're really hard to tell apart witout studying the dates. I'll post some pics of both.

Robert

Here's a Zimmermann...

[Robert P.]

and a Godet...

[johnrtse]

Robert- I'll try to get some better pics of the date after I get home from work tomorrow night.

I didn't think it was a Deumer, as I have one and the swaz has a quite different shape & style than this one.

Thanks!
John

P.S. I don't think I did too bad on this for $65 usd, with the Meybauer case. No- I'm not kidding. I paid similar bargain prices for the other items in the lot. I seriously think the seller was using a 20 year old price guide when he priced these for sale (it was a non-militaria classifieds).

[johnrtse]

Here is a better pic of the date. Hopefully it will help to determine if this cross is a Zimmerman or a Godet.

Robert- Looking at the thick number "1", and the shape of the "9", I'd almost say Godet, based on your pics above. I could be wrong.

Thanks again!

[meriksson]

John the one you show is most likely is a fake... Zimmer´s and Godet´s are the same, got them both and i cant find any that tell them appart. The date on ur ek dont match and not the pin either. Sorry !!!
Mikael

Ps rim dont match either..

[Robert P.]

John,

I personally believe there is no way of determining whether it's a Godet or a Zimmermann without a stamp, a maker mark. They both share even the same die characteristics on the frames under a 10X loop. The cores are exactly the same. The chances of this happening out of plain luck is absurd. It's as if both firms actually used the same dies to produce both firm's products. Without a stamp it's really tough, and a photo just doesn't do it either. Zimmermann's and Godet's RK's are clones almost also. Take your pick - you can call it either.

Robert

[Robert P.]

John the one you show is most likely is a fake... Zimmer´s and Godet´s are the same, got them both and i cant find any that tell them appart. The date on ur ek dont match and not the pin either. Sorry !!!
Mikael

Wow! Now there's a statement. But I too see a wee difference in the inside corners of the beading....

Robert

[johnrtse]

The date looks looks identical to the date in pic #2 that Robert posted. I can't comment on the pin, as this is only the 2nd EK1 that I own.

I will be following this thread discussion closely!

John

John the one you show is most likely is a fake... Zimmer´s and Godet´s are the same, got them both and i cant find any that tell them appart. The date on ur ek dont match and not the pin either. Sorry !!!
Mikael

Ps rim dont match either..

[Robert P.]

If you count the beading on the frame below the date you will find the Godet and Zimmermann crosses have much more beads than the original cross in question. I have judged this cross in haste. Now I am concrete in saying this cross is neither Zimm' or Godet. And I am sorry for misleading you.

Robert

[johnrtse]

Thanks Robert for your experise. I won't be too disappointed is it isn't real, as it did come in a genuine original Paul Meybauer case. Besides the fact that I only paid $65 usd for it.

If better pics would help to determine originality, I could try to take better ones in natural sunlight.

The rest of the items in the lot have been found to be genuine originals; Kober SA dagger with 3-piece hanger ($200 usd), HJ knife M7/13 ($50 usd), Mint JFS bronze IAB ($50 usd), unmarked silver wound badge ($30 usd), and sewn swaz armband w/ RZm tag ($20 usd). No kidding about these prices.

I do have a 7-day return privilege on these items, but the Meybauer EK1 case is worth more than $65, I'd guess.

Thanks again for all comments!

John

[Robert P.]

These particular pin assemblies are common to early Deumers, Zimmermanns and Godets. That's what threw me at first. I'd be very suspect to it being an original with a pin assembly like this, and the frame not mating with the aforementioned EK's.

Yes, that case is worth considerably more!

Robert

[johnrtse]

Just adding a few more pics to this thread, In the hope that it was me & my camera's (dis)ability to take photos that is causing some confusin with the authenticity of this EK1. By the way, the center is magnetic.

Here goes. Notice in these first (2) pics, There is a "dimple" at the 12 o'clock position- right where the eyelet on an EK2 would be soldered on. Did they use the the front frames interchangably when they made EK1's and EK2's?

[meriksson]

Note the ring mark on the top frame, i belive this is the the fake whit numerus off nr´s on them like 100 107 and more. And yes that case is worth more than that 65 usd, i figure some arround 150 Euro.
Mikael

[johnrtse]

Thank you for looking at this again Mikael!

I won't be returning this to the seller, as it is obvious that he was fooled too. If he was trying to deceive me, he would have been asking a lot more money than $65 usd for a fake cross with an original case! The other items that were in the lot are unquestionably original.

Thanks again,