KM Honor Roll Clasp on e-Stand

[George Stimson]

Well, what do you think? http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=227695

[Darrell]

Well, what do you think? http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=227695

Since I raised concern, I feel obligated to make a statement. The thing I find puzzling about this piece is the details behind the swastika of the sword. On most original examples I have seen, the sword should be well defined in straight lines. This one is more a square "blocky" patter,

Compare an original on the left, with the one in question on the right:

[rhudspith]

I think it is OK, it has the main charcteristics i look for perhaps some "extra" hand finishing has caused that effect.

Darrell, Agree the one on the left is also original but how did it get to be silver?

[MH184]

I have to say it looks good to me also ! What I'd look for and expect is evident as far as I'm concerned too.

George what do you think ?

[leigh]

Did something come up whilst i was away from collecting for a few years, a silver clasp!!!!!


can someone put the record straight for me.

Leigh

[mark vis]

Hi Guys, I have no problem with this item being looked at on here and heres a bit of background.Alot of people know that I`m into the german stuff and in the village I live in and my window cleaner put me onto this old boy who had a load of German stuff he got at the end of the war.I arranged to meet him and went round for tea.In the end I got an old oxo tin full of mainly Navy items all late war but all near mint including two 1st type bronze u-boat clasps in bronze the honor clasp,high seas fleet,u-boat badge,destroyers badge and so on,in total approx 40 items.Hence I stand by this 100% and if it is a fake then it`s a pre May 1945 one.I am a bit concerned also about the badge it has been shown against above?Is that a real one? and why is it silver?Please ask for more info or pictures if needed as this is one of my best vet pick ups over the years.

[George Stimson]

The sword characteristics notwithstanding, to me the e-Stand Clasp is a good original.

[Darrell]

The sword characteristics notwithstanding, to me the e-Stand Clasp is a good original.

Fair enough. The one on the left is just over-exposed I believe. It was gold from what I remember from the owner. Can't remember where the picture came from, I dug it out of the WAF archives some place.

Well, there you go.

[Gene]

A one-looker nice original with beautiful fire gilt finish

[leigh]

personally i think the one on the left is dubious.
IMO it has never had a gilt wash.
not one i would want.

Leigh

[Darrell]

Kinda makes you wonder. Rick Research here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...our+role+clasp

Asks some pretty interesting questions:

QUOTE*

************************

The loaves and fishes were a miracle. I sure guess the same thing MUST be going on here!

THIRTY-SEVEN awarded. <----- Statistical Reality Check.

OK, so obviously they were contracted in 1944 at a larger number--

none of which were ever awarded to ANYBODY, whatever that "batch" made's production run was. 500? 1,000? They're flimsy, cheap, easily cranked out... so "why not" 50,000? Or... 1,000,000???

But--and it is usually beyond trying to use logic on matters like this where statistical reality never intrudes ugly facts over wishful thinking--

1) in the ENTIRE LAST YEAR of the war, the German Navy awarded 37 of these. Somehow that would not inspire confidence in fantasizing that tens of thousands WERE sitting around in crates, never issued, so that not only everybody who wants one now CAN have one, but lots of people have and have had more than one, nor

2) that with MINISCULE wartime need, more than one "trial run" firm would have made these.

It makes no business sense-- not that THAT ever counts.

There are 37 awarded pieces. Try-- just TRY and FIND one of THOSE (let alone MORE than one of THOSE THIRTY SEVEN) and compare a KNOWN, DOCUMENTED example with one of the "zillions" of "originals" and "variants."

3) You all can compare all the examples you like and that proves nothing except that the zillions of KNOWABLE fakes out there obviously all match, since they ARE in mass production from the same (BAD!!!) sources. And with so MANY being churned out, of course there is more than one "variant" greedy forger marketing to so much demand... for such incredibly RARE items.

Without KNOWING what an AWARDED ORIGINAL with verifiable documentation looks like (not Dealer Soandso Loves Puppies So It MUST Be "Good"... because unless Dealer Soandso has had and recorded a verifiable "virgin" recipient's documented example...)...

again, it is ONLY logical to "benchmark" ANY of these from the possession of an original recipient's group. All else is unsupported and unsupportable speculation.

I have no idea who the dealer is you are all referring to, but how does ANY mortal born of woman become an "expert" on something only awarded 37 times? How MANY of THOSE verifiable, documented, original recipient pieces HAVE been handled by anyone to MAKE "expertise" on THIS badge? Being the World Renowned Expert on anything ELSE does NOT make expertise on THIS award.

"Believing" that any one of these IS original does not make it so. Hope isn't evidence, and faith isn't proof.
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[Jody]

Km Honor Roll Clasp

Hello,
I also have no issue with the clasp on E-stand it is a very nice piece. Rick does raise some good points, but I think the clasp is a lot like other things produced in the 3rd Reich, they made more than what was needed. Look at how many tropical helmets were made, Luftwaffe em M-43 caps, Mother's Crosses, EKs, DKs, RKs, etc. As you can see all of these clasps like their Heer and Luftwaffe counterparts are unissued.

There were a few of these KM clasps (cased) that came available in Canada in the 70's from a vet source.

BTW, I am not real crazy about the example presented on the left (thread #2).

Regards,
Jody

BTW, here is my cased example from Canada.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...nor+roll+clasp

[VtwinVince]

Stogie makes some good points again. I've only ever seen one verifiable original, and this was on a documentary on the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff. The CO of a minesweeper who picked up survivors got one and showed it.

[Jody]

Km Honor Roll Clasp

Stogie makes some good points again. I've only ever seen one verifiable original, and this was on a documentary on the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff. The CO of a minesweeper who picked up survivors got one and showed it.

Hello,
You are thinking about a different Rick.

Regards,
Jody