Iron Cross Spangen?

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello to all,
I am posting these for a fellow collector. I have serious doubts about both of them but he and I would like to hear the opinions of those that are more knowledgeable with Iron Cross Spangen.
The EKII Spange struck me as very odd because of the noticeably short wingspan of the eagle and the angle at which the wings are chopped. The "3" in the date bar is strange looking too. However, I have seen other strange looking variations of EK II Spangen that collectors say are real so I am wondering about this one. The wingspan measures about 28.5mm and the Spange is about 31.5mm high. (These measurements are not too accurate as all I had at the time was a metal rule.)
The EKI Spange initially struck me as completely bogus. I did think though that the frosted finish and burnished highligths look believable. I have never seen this hardware setup on an EKI Spange before, either real or fake. The number on the pin "18" would indicate Karl Wurster as the maker and as far as I know, they did not manufacturer these. This Spange measures about 43.5mm wide and 30mm high. Sorry that these pictures are not the best but this is all I have for now.
Thanks for any and all assistance!
Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

EKII Spange:

[Tom Yanacek]

EKI Spange:

[Tom Yanacek]

Reverse:

[Tom Yanacek]

One more picture:

[tinmantis]

Hi
see this thread for info on No1:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...strange+spange
I used to think this style was 50/50, now I consider it fully bogus
2nd one has pretty good obverse details, but is bogus too
sorry, bad news!
regards
jon

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello Jon,
Thanks for the information.
Best regards,
Tom

[Robert P.]

I agree jon,

They are pretty creative though. ... I wouldn't want these imposters in my collection. More for the fakes folder.

Let's look at this 2nd class spange, and compare it to the piece on page 292 of the second edition of The Iron Time. There are similarities.

Robert

[willie777]

I noticed that the ribbon is a trifold (even though not folded properly). On a CORRECT trifold, is the spange to be mounted vertically, 30 degrees clockwise in relation the the ribbon, or parallel to the ribbon? According to the Austrian and Hungarian medals I have seen, German/Austro-Hungarian regulations/traditions would seem to dictate the fact that it would be mounted vertically.

[willie777]

Bump

Hallo, anyone?

[Robert P.]

We're seeing a lot of these second class spanges popping up recently. They are comparable to the original on pages 287 and 292 of the Iron Time, and I'm starting to wonder if it's the exact piece, or a copy. The finish of the spange in the book is much smoother, as this piece here has a very rough texture. This will take some study.

Willie, from what I see in Gordon Williamson's book on the Iron Cross of 1939, on page 105, he shows a miniature of the trifold with the spange in the vertical position, making me think that this must have been the manner in which they were adorned. See this link to an example on our research page...http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/iron...nge/spange.htm

Robert

[Darrell]

We're seeing a lot of these second class spanges popping up recently. They are comparable to the original on pages 287 and 292 of the Iron Time, but just don't fill the bill exactly. Very close copy.Robert

Interesting. I didn't look that close at the ones in Iron Time 2. I did know that this variation was present, but by reading the posts about these had figured they were all fake.

Robert, are you saying the one's in Iron Time are original versions of the above imposter?

[Robert P.]

Darrell,

I edited my above post because I am beginning to wonder if the above spange is a copy of the spange in The Iron Time. It is very, very close in detail, but very rough textured. I am thinking it may be a copy. What do you see?



Robert

[Darrell]

Darrell,

I edited my above post because I am beginning to wonder if the above spange is a copy of the spange in The Iron Time. It is very, very close in detail, but very rough textured. I am thinking it may be a copy. What do you see?

Robert

I'm not around my book. I just remember very vividly that this type is show cased in the book. The wierd date and shape stands out. Don't really know one way or the other about them.

I do agree they seem to be popping up more and more recently.

[Robert P.]

I'm not around my book. I just remember very vividly that this type is show cased in the book. The wierd date and shape stands out. Don't really know one way or the other about them.

I do agree they seem to be popping up more and more recently.

Yes, they are. The finish is the issue with me. I look at the piece in the book and see much nicer detaling, where on this piece the detail is lacking and the finish is very textured. It looks to be the very spange. I called and asked regarding the posting of this spange in the book because of the lack of 'veins' in the wings. I was told it was confirmed an original by many leading spange experts in their field. Others also confirmed that there were original EKII spanges with no veins. So I settled the issue in my mind - there must be originals without veins. As you will see when viewing the spange in the Iron Time 2, this is either a copy or an original in different lighting. At this point I'm not condemning it or calling it an original. I believe these deserve more study. I'm waiting for others to review this piece and come to their conclusion, hopefully helping Tom.

Robert