A couple of questions regarding the cloth DKiG

[Calvin Hall]

Hello folks,

I have enjoyed collecting the cloth version of the DK, and I have several nice examples in my collection.

A couple of questions regarding the cloth DK...

1. Were cloth DKs issued to the recipient in the same fashion as the metal variety, or were these cloth DKs purchased privately by the recipient?

2. If they were privately purchased, why then were they not denoted w/ a L/## marking somewhere on the reverse? I don't remember ever having seen a L/## marked DK - either of the cloth or metal variety.

Just curious. Any enlightenment would be appreciated.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Hi Calvin,

cloth versions were not automatically issued but they could be purchased from the Supreme Command of each branch as this letter from the Pr******228;sidialkanzlei to a recipient, who wanted to buy such a version from the PKZ, shows.

Replacements for the 'real' deal needed to be requested from the PKZ. If the damage or loss was due to enemy action, it was for free (as it was the case in this letter). If one just wanted to have another one, it was RM 15.-

So, no private purchase possible and therefore also no LDO-number. But mind you, this does not apply to the stickpin miniature. That one was freely available in shops and can be found with L/.. number.

I hope this helps.

Dietrich

[tinmantis]

havn't we seen some with a white stamp on the reverse? I'm sure I can remember an L/11? or am I losing my mind?
regards
jon

[Dietrich Maerz]

I've never seen one with an L/.. stamp - but that doesn't mean anything. I've seen a lot with white stamps but those were manufacturer stamps.

Dietrich

[Calvin Hall]

Hello Dietrich,

Thanks for the info.

If you info is correct then what does is say about the cloth DKs that feature the price of 3.75 RM on the reverse? There is one shown on page 212 of 'The Iron Cross of 1939' by Williamson.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Calvin,

I'm pretty sure the information is correct - unless somebody went thru the expense to fake 10.000 pages of PKZ correspondance I have in my posession. I find this unlikely.

Also, in the Dec. 1943 issue of the Uniformanmarkt the following statement, forbbiding the private sale of metal and cloth versions of the DK, was made.

So what does the price sticker mean? I do not know and I have also one with the same price. maybe it just means that - the price.

[Sonderkommando]

Not a bad profit, the PKZ were buying them for around 4RM from the manufacturers and selling them for 15RM to the soldiers.....

What a way to look after your fighting troops....

[Dietrich Maerz]

Brett,

There's a misunderstanding. The price tag of RM 3.75 is on a cloth version and IMHO represents the selling price of the cloth version.

Dietrich

[Sonderkommando]

Hi Dietrich,
My mistake! I thought it was the cloth one for 15RM.


Brett

[Calvin Hall]

Hi Dietrich,
My mistake! I thought it was the cloth one for 15RM.


Brett

Yeah, that is what I was thinking, as well.

Killer info Dietrich!

[Mark S.]

Why would a RK be available for private purchase and not a DK?

[Dietrich Maerz]

A Knights Cross (and all the higher grades) was not available for private purchase after the date of Nov. 1, 1941. Remaining stock had to be surrendered against payment to the PKZ. Display samples for the shop window could be retained.

Dietrich

[Calvin Hall]

A Knights Cross (and all the higher grades) was not available for private purchase after the date of Nov. 1, 1941. Remaining stock had to be surrendered against payment to the PKZ. Display samples for the shop window could be retained.

Dietrich

Why did the PKZ eliminate the private purchase of the RK and DK?

[Dietrich Maerz]

To protect the status of the order and to avoid that every second 'jeweller' and 'hatmaker' cranks out a non-magnetic Neusilber crosses!

(the so called 'jewellers copies, sometimes also glorified as special crosses for the submarine commanders so that they don't leave a rust trail or also used for special Luftwaffe pilots to not to disturb the instruments so that they not incidently bomb Berlin instead of London....)

So only crosses approved by the PKZ and supervised by the LDO made their way to the PKZ and from there to the rightfull recipient. If a cross was lost, it was replaced at no cost. A second cross (or more) could be bought from the PKZ. There was no need to have private shops selling them.

The whole idea of "retail" pieces has to viewed with extreme caution for the RK and up....

Dietrich