Please help ID this Iron Cross 1st class

[Panzer Rob]

Hi guys. This one just came in with a grouping and I would like to ask for help identifying the maker. It has cross-hatching, a rather sloppy frame with multiple flaws (al’la mm ‘55’ EKII) and on the back there is a small hole just bellow the hinge. I believe the core has been repainted, as there is black paint on the inner portions of the frame.

Any help would be most appreciated. Sorry for the lousy pictures, but it’s late and there’s no light

Thanks in advance.
Rob

[Panzer Rob]

[Panzer Rob]

[Panzer Rob]

die flaws and flash on inner frame

[Panzer Rob]

paint on inner frame

[Panzer Rob]

[Panzer Rob]

The hole I mentioned

[Panzer Rob]

last one - top of frame and hinge

[DavidM]

Hello

This EK looks like it might be a Junckers EK - or something trying to be a Junckers. I'm basing this on the cross hatching and the hole on the reverse.

However, could you please post some face on photos of the front and rear. With the rear view please leave the pin down so that it can be properly seen.

Regards
David

[Panzer Rob]

David-

I will try to get some better picturs at the angles you requested a little later on today.

Does anyone else what to take a stab

Thanks,
Rob

[StefanK.]

David,

you are not right. The cross is for sure no Juncker. To me the cross is a pure fake.


Stefan

[Panzer Rob]

David,

you are not right. The cross is for sure no Juncker. To me the cross is a pure fake.


Stefan

Stefan, I'm trying to learn here... can you please tell me what it is that makes you think that this EK1 is fake?

Thanks,
Rob

[StefanK.]

Hi Rob,


It is very difficult to explain why this cross is a fake. If I'd tell you that this particular cross is a fake because of its bad quality, die flaws, etc you won't be statisfied because only a bad quality does not make a EK a fake.

Maybe let's put it that way: There are several EK manufacturers that are accepted by the collector's community as pre war. Also, there are several that are accepted as post war. It does not count wheater the cross has a strange needle, bad quality or is made of only one piece. An origial cross is original, because it has its unique specialties and characteristics. Only this characteristics make a cross real or not real.

You mentioned you were a beginner. I can give you one important point you should remember while collecting iron crosses: "Everything is possible, nothing is forbidden".
A lot of ancient collectors claim that every original cross has to be made out of three parts, has to be magnetic, has to bear this and that special characteristic - all wrong.
Study every original EK and you will soon learn why this cross shown above is a fake.


kindest regards,

Stefan

[DavidM]

David,

you are not right. The cross is for sure no Juncker. To me the cross is a pure fake.


Stefan

Hello

I agree that this one may not be a Junckers - I intimated such when I said "or something trying to be a Junckers". I am also aware that there are other EKs which also carry the cross hatching on the inner corners.

However, I would like to see, as I have asked, some good face on photos of the front and back before saying absolutely that it is either good or bad. Better still, please quantify your statement "to me the cross is a pure fake" by explaining why it is fake. As with everyone I too would like to know and learn.

Regards
David

[Panzer Rob]

Stefan-

Thank you for all of your input, I appreciate it.

I've only handled a few original EKI's, and when I compare this one to my EK1's (a L/50 and "7" marked Meybauer) the aging, patina, etc. is in line and looks OK. The construction is consistent with late-war EKII's that I have handled and those that are in my collection. There are details that are present (i.e. cross hatching) which appears on other original EKI's but still... there's something about it that's just bothering me.

It looks and feels real but something just isn't right, and I can't put my finger on it. The hole on the back is definitely something I have not seen on other EKI's. I ran several searches without any luck, and couldn’t find any in the EK1 gallery, either,

As I said, my knowledge on EK1's is limited, as I am mainly a document and paper guy, but this cross came with a very large and complete grouping and it's the only piece that seems to stick out.

Has anyone encountered this hole, or pin and hinge setup on a known original?

I am going to be posting some better pictures in a few hours. Perhaps some other of the cross gurus will chime in with their thoughts.

Thanks again for your help.
Rob