Second Pieces

[andrewb]

Hi Chris.
I can do better than tell. I'll show you!!!

[Anthony Evans]

shouldnt the top rivet be closer to the top so that about 1/2 the rivet covers the clasp plate, if im wrong (which is a good possability cause im really buzzed) its looks great for a zimmerman

[andrewb]

most of the zimmerman's I've seen have some part of the rivet on the plate but not half as a rule.
AB.

[andrewb]

Any opinions on the case? Has anyone ever seen one like this before? and have you ever seen a DK engraved like this? I have more info and photos on him if anyone would like to see them.
I ask because I don't want to post photos if nobody is interested in looking.
AB.

[Luftm40]

Others can comment more thoroughly on the case, but I must admit to not liking the engraving. I'm very jaded about such pieces, w/ all of the relevant, juicy, right out of the reference book info emblazoned on the back. From my experience pieces like this are almost always spurious. The DKiG looks real enough though, so perhaps this one has a chance...

[andrewb]

Thanks Andy for your comments.
Let me fill you in with some info about this. I bought this DK from a private collector who bought it directly from Josef Schwanzer who is the recipients (Major Anton Schwanzer) paternal grandmothers cousin. In 1997 Josef made contact with the remaining Schwanzers' in Germany. He was able to obtain Antons' shoulder boards and his breast eagle from the family which is part of this group.Because josef is related to Anton he was able to obtain from the Bundesarchiv in Aachen his military service record. This was done in 2001. There are 12 pages of this record which is also part of this group. They are photo copies of the original record which, of course, he has kept.

It was in 1998 that he was made aware that Antons' DK was to be auctioned at a Vienna auctionhaus. Whether the family deceided to sell Antons' medals or the last family member had passed away and the estate was to be auction is not known yet. It was bought by Josef via a dealer on his behalf. There is also a hand written letter by Josef to confirm all the above. It is signed, dated and his postal address is on the top of the page. I am now trying to make contact with Josef to get more info on this.

To sum up, I can't be 100% sure when the engraving was done. I will leave it open. What I am sure about is that this DK did belong to Anton Schwanzer and whether or not the engraving was done pre or post war is not so important to me.
Here are some more pics.
Thanks for your interest.
AB.

[andrewb]

Pic 1

[andrewb]

pic 2

[andrewb]

pic 3

[andrewb]

Last one.
Regards,
AB.

[ChrisJ]

Nice

Very interesting indeed Andrew, and a very nice tale to this...thanks for taking the time to post.

I handled a Victoria Cross (Suffolk Regiment) some years ago that some well meaning family member had cleaned up to a bright shine (they were meant to be dull in the extreme)...it was enough to bring tears to the eye

Dont be too concerned about "proof"...lots of odd things could happen over the years, if you are comfortable, then thats all that really matters !

[andrewb]

Chris,, the thought of cleaning a V.C ....My eyes are filling up. A media mogel here in Australia bought at auction last year, the last Australian V.C. from WW1. The family put it up for sale. It sold for A$1 million. All of them are now in the Australian War Museum. I believe there is a WW2 V.C winner still living in western Victoria. Love to sit and hear his stories.
As for the DK, I thought It would be best to tell the whole story behind it. It wasn't just some DK I picked up at the local show. If it came with nothing else but the cross itself then of course you would have to think of the worse but when you have all this behind it then it puts a whole different outlook on it.
Thanks for your words of encouragement.
AB.

[Robert T.]

In my collection I have an RK (plus documentation) awarded to Joachim Barth, and thought that the following letter copy might be of interest to forum members....its concerning a replacement (or second example) of his DKiG. We have all heard of recipients obtaining these...but here is some nice supportive information to bring it all to life a bit.

You will note the signature is Dr. Doehle.......

I wonder what 15 RM would be in todays money ?

Chris,

I am quite happy that you have posted your document , I have a documents and awards grouping (obtained from an Officer's family),there are two DKIG (one battle worn Deschler and one light cased "20").
The officer was killed in action in november 1943 (eastern front) and I could only think of one explanation for him to have a new (spare) cross. He attended the regimental leaders course for tanks in Wunsdorf in June 43.
Since your document shows a similar address and date ,I believe that it might have been possible to get or order the replacement at the training school.

Regards,
__________
Robert

[ChrisJ]

Chris,

I am quite happy that you have posted your document , I have a documents and awards grouping (obtained from an Officer's family),there are two DKIG (one battle worn Deschler and one light cased "20").
The officer was killed in action in november 1943 (eastern front) and I could only think of one explanation for him to have a new (spare) cross. He attended the regimental leaders course for tanks in Wunsdorf in June 43.
Since your document shows a similar address and date ,I believe that it might have been possible to get or order the replacement at the training school.

Regards,
__________
Robert

Thats really interesting, Robert...its amazing what comes to light on the forum when you make a simple post !