The right loop ???

[Jason Burmeister]

Dave,
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I’m not suggesting anything be changed. What I asked is, how an items value and it’s desirability to the collecting community is effected if proven a loop has been properly changed or added once the oaks or swords where removed? This isn’t restoration and it’s not about changing one part for a better. It’s about buying a RK and not knowing if something has been correctly changed in the past. For example, an individual purchases an original Juncker cross that has an original correct time period Juncker loop. How are they to know that it didn’t have set of swords on it twenty years ago and someone sold the swords off and installed a proper ring? Of course this isn’t a problem unless there is a picture of it from twenty years ago and it surfaces and identifies the piece as altered. What then is their responsibility? Is it worth less? These are the questions.

[Jeff V]

Dave,
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I’m not suggesting anything be changed. What I asked is, how an items value and it’s desirability to the collecting community is effected if proven a loop has been properly changed or added once the oaks or swords where removed? This isn’t restoration and it’s not about changing one part for a better. It’s about buying a RK and not knowing if something has been correctly changed in the past. For example, an individual purchases an original Juncker cross that has an original correct time period Juncker loop. How are they to know that it didn’t have set of swords on it twenty years ago and someone sold the swords off and installed a proper ring? Of course this isn’t a problem unless there is a picture of it from twenty years ago and it surfaces and identifies the piece as altered. What then is their responsibility? Is it worth less? These are the questions.

Hi Jason, I don't think that scenario would effect the value at all. Every cross that had a oaks and swords originally had just the regular loop. best wishes,
jeff

[Jason Burmeister]

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Jeff, thank you. Your input as well as other member’s opinions is what I’m looking for.
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Another scenario for consideration is the situation Calvin Hall is currently in. He was fortunate enough to purchase an original cross missing the loop. When he is successful in finding the correct loop, will his cross be worth less because he added a correct loop?

[Dietrich Maerz]

It’s about buying a RK and not knowing if something has been correctly changed in the past. For example, an individual purchases an original Juncker cross that has an original correct time period Juncker loop. How are they to know that it didn’t have set of swords on it twenty years ago and someone sold the swords off and installed a proper ring? Of course this isn’t a problem unless there is a picture of it from twenty years ago and it surfaces and identifies the piece as altered. What then is their responsibility? Is it worth less? These are the questions.

First of all I think that the important part is the cross itself. The loop, the ribbon and the case are 'just' add-on's. And they have been added, switched, upgraded, lost or whatever.

There are crosses in collections and on the market w/o any loop for whatever reason. Does that make the cross itself less valueable? I don't think so! Or - to come back to the core question - would the cross be less valuable with the 'wrong' loop when it shows up later with a loop and was seen before w/o one? I don't think so either.

And furthermore, there needs to be a dead solid and undisputable bench mark for the 'correct loop' and I don't mean a K&Q on a S&L..

[rkdek]

Why not start a dicussion on which loop should be on which cross?

I'm also looking for a loop to match my very early Juncker cross, but how should I know how it should look like?

As mentioned it's not only about K & Q loops and even with these there is discussion.....

[Dave Kane]

Ideally, the CORRECT loop is the way to go and surely adds value to a Cross that (didn't ) have one for whatever reason.

As stated already these things have been switched, traded and up-graded for decades by collectors and dealers. However, I would be reluctant to purchase a Juncker RK that had an obvious 'conical' S&L micro stamped 800 loop attached. There would have to be a 'consideration' in the price!

[Jeff V]

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Jeff, thank you. Your input as well as other member’s opinions is what I’m looking for.
<O></O>
Another scenario for consideration is the situation Calvin Hall is currently in. He was fortunate enough to purchase an original cross missing the loop. When he is successful in finding the correct loop, will his cross be worth less because he added a correct loop?

Hi Jason, In Calvin's case restoring with the correct loop would only enhance the value not detract in any way. How much I don't know. I do know the loops by themselves are expensive when seen for sale. best wishes,
jeff

[Jason Burmeister]

Denis,
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I agree, it would be nice to see a discussion on loops.
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[rkdek]

Indeed Jason,

A constructive discussion to ultimately establish a catalogue of loops.

[Pieter Verbruggen]

I wonder where people get loose loops - not a very common thing to find, I would say.

...at the "loop factory", Sprungringstrasse 12 , Berlin Germany...don't you know?
Pieter