Some old cataloges

[Rich G]

Not trying to take away from the thread but objectively, all you have here is a list of awards that are available for sale. There is no way of telling if these are left-over stock, items made from original dies but post '45 or complete reproductions.

Without photographs of the items there is no way to tell.

[naxos]

Hello Dietrich,
I really enjoy your research
I grew up in the 60's near Pforzheim. The small town about 15km from Pforzheim had a factory branch of the Schmuckwaren Fabrik Speidel. In the early 70's the factory, long defunct, had some renovations, a school friend of mine rumaging through the waste bins found several cardbord boxes full of iron crosses and parts. The iron crosses were only partially finished - they were EK2s without the the loop to hold the ring attached. Some were just unpainted cores in a very rusty condition and some of the boxes had frame parts.
That was just a small branch employing about seventy workers. The remains of the 3rd reich's industry did not just vanish after 45.

All the Best, Hardy

[Dietrich Maerz]

Not trying to take away from the thread but objectively, all you have here is a list of awards that are available for sale. There is no way of telling if these are left-over stock, items made from original dies but post '45 or complete reproductions.

Richard,

I don't see where I said these are 'fakes' or whatever. I also said:

But we should not forget that some of this could very well be out of genuine storage and left overs. This might very well be true for some of the regular medals, I doubt it for the RK and the Grand Cross, however.

I started this thread more as a response to the sometimes used notion that there was no more "Nazi-stuff" sold, produced, or whatever due to the laws and fears because of the occupation. That is just not true!

Dietrich

[ricky1972]

All we need is a time machine or a medium that can tell by touching the items from our collection

Cheers,
Ricky

[byterock]

One could check to see if the 'Iron' in the 'Iron Cross' was made for 'clean metal'. Now clean in this sense is a metal smelted before August 1945 and has normal background radiation in it.

Any metal after August 1945 will have more radiation in it as a result of all the A & H bombs we have let off since then.

Just how one could test this I could not say but I know it would not be easy.

Just looking at the numbers of potential awards of common badges like the WB there were what over 10 million (even more) eligible recipients if one 1/10 got the WB that would be 1 million out there so there could be lots and lots of left over stock that would last years and years.

If these badge dealers were anything like coin and stamp dealers they would have great stocks of awards to draw on all good and original IMHO at least the common ones.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Evidently this debate is not new and was already raised in 1960 by his US-customer. Here's what Mr. Schiffer had to say:

[ricky1972]

Fantastic thread!

Many thanks Dietrich!

Cheers,
Ricky

[Dietrich Maerz]

Here's Eduard Schiffer's RZM-code during the war: M12/12 Maybe some of the "RZM-guys" can find out more about his activities before May 1945?

[Stephen Stout]

Evidently this debate is not new and was already raised in 1960 by his US-customer. Here's what Mr. Schiffer had to say:

That is intresting so in theory, military medals from the Deutsches Reich should be cheaper then because of a mass supply?

[ChrisJ]

Where

Very interesting....but if these were reproductions, where are they ?

Really, how many sets of diamonds, or Grand Crosses appear on the collector market these days...(apart from well known fakes, that is) ?

Left over stock ?....assembled pieces from parts ?.... yes, I'd go along with that.

Chris

[Dietrich Maerz]

Very interesting....but if these were reproductions, where are they ?

Also .... but if these were real, where are they? They must be somehwere! Real, Repros or whatever.

[RICK S]

I hope Detlev is not using this source for his every friday amazing list of III Reich items.

Best regards,
Adolph.

LOL, LOL amazing thought for all dealers.
Hope not, but hard to think otherwise still original what's the difference.
still original stock.

[RICK S]

The last catalog page even mentions that one can have "upon request" special made medal bars, ribbon bars and miniature pins and combinations thereof.

One does not make a catalog like this one if one only has one or several of each ....

It is very telling that she offers the RK, the oaks and the swords in silver or silver-plated.

All this was available for a very long period of time and the target market was the USA, most and foremost.

Some of theses pieces found their way in early collections. With early I mean early to mid 50's. And since they were in 'early' collections, some of the pieces are now deemed real.

Dietrich

Dietrich you amaze me:
Great info. but I've got to say whats the difference issued awards or left over stock or made to order assure all the same ,who would know the difference must be considered original.

[Dietrich Maerz]

I think one has to differentiate here. Some badges could very well have been from old (genuine) stock, but most likely not the following:

- 1944 Wound Badges in all grades
- Knight Cross with Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds
- Knights Cross with Golden Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds
- silver plated Knight Cross or Oakleaves (against regulations)
- "100" and "75" numbered badges
- the whole Eagle Order set
- the German Order (upon request)

Hard to believe that Mr. Schiffer had those all in his basement in Bielefeld. Or not? Or Frau Klietmann in Berlin? I personally don't think so!

[George Stimson]

"Hard to believe that Mr. Schiffer had those all in his basement in Bielefeld. Or not? Or Frau Klietmann in Berlin? I personally don't think so!"

Not to mention what was possibly held by the ongoing concern of Steinhauer & Luck....<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->