Helmut Weitze

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Nice next of kin spanish cross grouping!

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    #31
    Jacques,

    According to my records, 4, not 3, kriegsmarine sailors were killed in accidents.

    It is interesting that there are 4 coffins in the photo. However, it might not be related.

    Karlsruhe operated in Spanish waters from 12-27-36 to 2-22-37 and also 6-17-37 to 6-29-37.

    After this, she went back to Germany for extensive refit which started 5-20-38. Between 7/37 and 5/38 she apparently was in too poor a condition to participate in fleet operations based on problems derived from her previous around the world cruise.

    The 31 KM deaths in Deutchland was on 5-29-37--the bodies were left in Gibraltar and later (when I do not know) were returned to Germany. It would be interesting to know when this happened.

    Karlsruhe probably did not transport bodies back based on the dates above, but it is not discounted since we do not have the logs. If this was a US ship, this would be easily resolved by obtaining the ship's log for those periods from the National Archives. I am sure the same is available in Germany from German researchers, just beyond my ability to obtain without a lot of work.

    The log would reveal what was going on, but it is clear to me it is a funeral service, not in Spain, not in Gibraltar, but probably Kiel or Wilhemshaven. Based on the formations of sailors, and assuming the photos are all connected which I think they are, the logic is clear, the ship's crew is participating in a military funeral service. I do not think German ships, note the others in the photos, were all lined up in port in Spain at any time.

    So that still leaves us with the mystery, but like I said, the truth is very easily resolved by a German researcher. I have done this numerous times with US ships thru the Naval Historical Center and the National Archives, both here and in the UK. That is the problem here, a German researcher would have to undertake the basic work t find out, but without that, all we are left with is the available record of where Karlsruhe was at this time in her operational history.

    John

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      #32
      Thanks John for that information. I appreciate all the input on this group. best wishes,
      jeff
      Looking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.

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        #33
        Originally posted by trident3 View Post
        Jacques,

        According to my records, 4, not 3, kriegsmarine sailors were killed in accidents.

        It is interesting that there are 4 coffins in the photo. However, it might not be related.

        Karlsruhe operated in Spanish waters from 12-27-36 to 2-22-37 and also 6-17-37 to 6-29-37.

        After this, she went back to Germany for extensive refit which started 5-20-38. Between 7/37 and 5/38 she apparently was in too poor a condition to participate in fleet operations based on problems derived from her previous around the world cruise.

        The 31 KM deaths in Deutchland was on 5-29-37--the bodies were left in Gibraltar and later (when I do not know) were returned to Germany. It would be interesting to know when this happened.

        Karlsruhe probably did not transport bodies back based on the dates above, but it is not discounted since we do not have the logs. If this was a US ship, this would be easily resolved by obtaining the ship's log for those periods from the National Archives. I am sure the same is available in Germany from German researchers, just beyond my ability to obtain without a lot of work.

        The log would reveal what was going on, but it is clear to me it is a funeral service, not in Spain, not in Gibraltar, but probably Kiel or Wilhemshaven. Based on the formations of sailors, and assuming the photos are all connected which I think they are, the logic is clear, the ship's crew is participating in a military funeral service. I do not think German ships, note the others in the photos, were all lined up in port in Spain at any time.

        So that still leaves us with the mystery, but like I said, the truth is very easily resolved by a German researcher. I have done this numerous times with US ships thru the Naval Historical Center and the National Archives, both here and in the UK. That is the problem here, a German researcher would have to undertake the basic work t find out, but without that, all we are left with is the available record of where Karlsruhe was at this time in her operational history.

        John
        John, that was much more clear! I understand your logic now! Thanks much!

        Best, Sal

        Comment


          #34
          Hi Jeff !
          Great group and excellent SC`s .

          Jan Arne

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            #35
            [quote=trident3;1590924
            You said you knew of 3 KM sailors that died by accident, do you have any details on these 3?
            John[/quote]

            I found these names


            - Freg.Kptn FUHRKE M.,died on april 30th 1937, during an air crash of the post office plane which made Seville-Rome tour. the plane crashed in the see in front of the Malaga's harbour.
            - Korv Kpt. MAYRHÖFFER R., died on the post office plane crash on january 17th 1938,
            - Mont. JENSEN J. died on mars 6th 1938,aboard the "Baleares" under enemy fire. He surely got the cross with swords.
            - Funk. SCHAAF H., died on a post office plane crash near Zaragosa on april 8th 1939.
            - Waffenm. VÜLCHER W. died on May 12th 1938 during a car crash in Mallorca.

            Jacques

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              #36
              Hi,
              I suppose the group doesn't include the documents . I should have been interested to see the docs for the crosses and also if he was awarded the medal "sufrimientos por la patria".
              jacques

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