RK to KVK

[ChrisJ]

Can any of you with RK's to KVK (both with and without swords) post details of weights.
There would appear to be a very interesting feature coming to light regarding (possibly) late and early issues of this award.
Would much appreciate your assistance and information.

[Thierry Tixier]

Hi,

178 RK des KVK with Swords and 52 RK des KVK without Swords had been conferred. It should be noted that while 230 RK des KVK were bestowed there were only 224 recipients since 6 of them (Walter Brugmann, Julius Dorpmüller, Karl-Otto Saur, Albin Sawatzki, Walter Schreiber, Walter Rohlandt) each received two RK (one with and one without Swords).

The distribution of the RK des KVK was as follows :

53 - Armaments & War Production Industries
43 - Army
21 - Railway Service
13 - Agricultural Production
11 - Waffen SS
11 - Navy
9 - Luftwaffe
7 - Foreign Ministry
7 - Ministry of Transport
7 - Ministry of Occupied Eastern Territories
6 - WH High Command
6 - Organisation Todt
6 - Police & Security Services
6 - Merchant Navy
5 - RAD
5 - Science & Education
5 - Postal Service
5 - NSDAP, NSKK & HJ
3 - Ministry of Labour
1 - Ministry of Economics

Thierry

[Thierry Tixier]

List of RKT des KVK without Schwertern :

HAHNE Franz : 20-5-42 (Altmärkische Kettenwerk/Rheinmetall - Fabrik Sturmgeschütze),
THOMSEN Hans : 25-5-42.

DAVIDSHÖFER Christian : 5-6-43 (Obermeister e. Treibstoffwerkes),
HOLTMAYER Johannes : 5-6-43 (Obermeister),
KRAUCH Carl : 5-6-43,
ROHLAND Walter : 5-6-43 (Direktor d. Deutschen Edelstahlwerke AG),
SAUR Karl-Otto : 5-6-43,
SAWATZKI Albin : 5-6-43 (Betriebsleiter),
WERNER William : 5-6-43,
RAHN Rudolf : 22-6-43 (Ambassador in Rome),
DORPMÜLLER Julius : 19-9-43 (Reichsverkehrminister),
DEGENKOLB Gerhard : 20-9-43,
PIER Mattias : 20-9-43,
SCHIEBER Walter : 20-9-43 (Ministerium für Rüstung und Kriegsproduktion),
SCHIRNT Kurt : 3-10-43,
SAUERBRUCH Ferdinand-Ernst : 10-43,
WOLF Ludwig : 21-10-43,
GRIMM Fritz-Wilhelm : 7-12-43.

AMBROS Otto : 1944,
BÜTEFISCH Heinrich : 1944,
RICKHEY Georg Johannes : 1944,
WURSTER Karl : 1944,
MORELL Theodor : 24-2-44,
DOHRN Hermann : 10-8-44,
HASSENPFLUG Werner : 12-8-44 (Leiter der Personalabteilung in Reichsverkehrsministerium),
HILDEBRANDT Hubert : 12-8-44,
PEUCKERT Rudi Werner : 12-8-44,
TIMM Max : 12-8-44,
DILLI Gustav : 14-8-44,
HAYLER Franz : 16-8-44 (Staatssekretar im Reichswirtschaftsministerium),
ARPS Willi : 24-8-44,
GANZER Karl-Richard : 15-9-44,
ESAU Abraham : 22-9-44,
KOHNERT Hans-Joachim : 30-9-44,
BEHRENS Gustav : 1-10-44,
BLOEDORN Wilhelm : 1-10-44,
HECHT Kurt : 1-10-44,
HUBER Reinhold : 1-10-44,
PFLAUMBAUM Walter : 1-10-44,
ZSCHIRNT Kurt : 3-10-44 (accredited with the award twice),
LINNEMEYER Werner : 12-10-44,
LIPPISCH Alexander : 12-10-44,
MESSERSCHMITT Willy : 12-10-44,
ECKHARDT Alfred : 7-12-44,
BERTRAM Richard Wolfgang Paul : 26-12-44.

DARGEL Paul : 15-1-45,
SCHELP Fritz : 20-2-45,
BOHRMANN Otto : 21-2-45.

[Thierry Tixier]

Berlin 5/6/1943 : Eichenlaubträger Leutnant Hugo Primozic und Dr Ing Walter Rohland, Direktor d. Deutschen Edelstahlwerke AG.

[IMG]rkkvk.jpg[/IMG]

[Thierry Tixier]

List of RKT des KVK mit Schwertern (1942-1943):

- von BOETTICHER Friedrich : 27-5-42 (General d. Artillerie),
- Freiherr von GABLENZ Carl August : 25-8-42 (Chef d. Planungsamtes d. Generalluftzeugmeisters i. Reichsluftfahrtministerium),
- LEFFLER Kurt : 4-10-42,
- RITTER Ernst : 4-10-42,
- WITZELL Karl : 5-10-42 (Kriegsmarine),
- DEL Günter : 17-10-42,
- LIEBEL Willy : 27-11-42 (Reichministerium für Rüstung und Kriegsproduktion),
- REMY Karl : 7-12-42 (Reichsbahn).

- von UNRUH Walter : 1943 (General d. Infanterie),
- PLIEGER Paul : 10-5-43,
- DORSCH Xaver : 13-5-43 (OT),
- BRUGMANN Walter : 14-5-43,
- JACOB Alfred : 4-6-43,
- HINKERROHE Joseph : 5-6-43 (OT),
- SCHMID Karl : 5-6-43,
- GEHRCKE Rudolf : 27-7-43 (General d. Infanterie),
- WAHLE Carl : 3-8-43 (Generalmajor u. Stadtkommandant von Hamburg),
- DALUEGE Kurt : 6-9-43 (SS Obstgruf u. Chef Hauptamt Ordnungspolizei),
- NEUBACHER Hermann : 7-9-43,
- BENOIT Wilhelm : 13-9-43 (Heeres-Hauptwerkmeister),
- SEXTEL Anton : 13-9-43,
- GANZENMÜLLER Albert : 19-9-43 (Staatssekretär in Reichsverkehrsministerium),
- HANDLOSER Siegfried : 23-9-43 (Generaloberstabsarzt, Heeres Sanitäts-Inspekteur u. Chef des Wehrmacht-Sanitätswesens),
- HEINEMANN Erich : 23-9-43 (General d. Artillerie),
- KUBE Wilhelm-Richard Paul : 27-9-43 (posthumously),
- KÖRNER Helmuth : 3-10-43 (SS Brig Fhr),
- REINHARDT Fritz : 3-10-43 (Militärverwaltungschef),
- RITTER Julius : 6-10-43,
- BLAICHER Ernst : 15-11-43,
- KÜHL Bernhardt : 16-11-43 (General d. Flieger),
- ENNSBERGER Alois : 28-11-43 (SS Hstuf u. TFK I./SS Pz Rgt 2/Das Reich),
- GOUDEFROY Erich : 7-12-43 (Reichsbahn),
- BIERSCHENK Ernst : 7-12-43 (Lokomotivführer, Reichsbahn),
- HELLENTHAL Remigius : 7-12-43 (Technischer Reichsbahn u. Oberinspektor),
- KINDERVATER August : 7-12-43 (Lokomotivführer, Reichsbahn),
- RABITZ Friedrich : 14-12-43,
- WEISE Erich : 16-12-43.

[ChrisJ]

Thanks

Thanks a lot Thierry...
I'm sorry, maybe my post was not clear... but I am really looking for the weight (in gramms) of the awards.. (nice information anyway and thankyou)
Regards,

[ChrisJ]

Info ?

What.. nobody has any RK to KVK with swords ?

Cone on guys, information would be much apprecaited !

[Raz]

Surely there has to be more collectors out there with RK KVK's? IF you don't want to post the dimensions
publicly then just PM Chris with the info as I have done. These are truly very interesting findings!

[Gordon Williamson]

It is definitely looking as if there are two distinct weight groupings for the Deschler RK. It would only take a fraction of a difference in the thickness of the silver "blank" placed into the die to give a slight difference in weight. Published weights so far are between 42.3 and 42.9gr. (The latter for an original RK of the KVK in Gold ).
I don't know how much weight of Gold was used in the plating process but presume it would be fairly minimal.

It now seems though that there are originals with a 2-3 gr lighter weight, some of which have an identifiable die flaw.

The existence of the Gold RK of the KVK was officially announced by an alteration to the original Institution Order on 8 July 1944.
It states the Golden Cross "...es gleicht in Größe und Prägung dem Ritterkreuz des Kriegsverdienstkreuzes", so it is clearly logical that they would simply use existing strikings and add a gold plating and that then the Gold pieces would weight pretty much the same as the Silver, attested to by the weight of 42.9gr for the Gold piece mentioned.

Unfortunately this doesn't help date the lighter weight RK with die flaw, because the few pieces which were gilded could have been actually struck any time from 1940 and taken from old stock, but it does seem as if those lighter weight pieces with actual documented provenance are 1944 awards, which would suggest the heavier pieces as earlier, the lighter pieces later.

Given the very low numbers awarded it would seem likely production runs were low. I'd guess no more than three batches of a hundred or so, so we might have heavier pieces - no flaw, lighter pieces-no flaw, then lighter pieces with flaw after the die was damaged.

I do hope we can get some more data on weights from original pieces in collections.

[ChrisJ]

Information Appreciated

To re-inforce the contribution from Gordon, could any member with and RK to KVK kindly provide weight information, and scans, if at all possible. Needless to say, privacy will be maintained when requested.
These findings have a great significance to the knowledge of this important award, and also will hopefully help in the future to steer collectors through the plethora of fakes and reproductions that are circulating on the market.... in the same way that Gordon's work on the RK to EK has done over the years.

[Gordon Williamson]

One more weight in from a Forum Member. On scales that only measure to the full gr, it hovers between 42 and 43gr, no die flaw. Fits in to what would appear to be the textbook "early" heavier type.

[ChrisJ]

Info

Thanks for the info Gordon,
For the benefit of other members, I've located one more cased RK to KVK with swords that shows die flaw attributed to a recipient awarded cross in late 1943. This is a light weight version as alluded to in Gordon's post.

I'm sure there are others out there in collections... come on guys.. give us some detials !

[Laurence Strong]

What exactly does the die flaw look like, and where is it placed on the medal?

[MH184]

Mine's a Deschler 900 without swords, and weigh's 33.8g

Kind regards,

Marcus

Chris what details do you need scan wise, any specific details or close ups needed ?

[Mike Downey]

The KVK without swords awarded to Dr Lothar Kreuz weighs 36.7g.
The KVK with swords awarded to Kreuz weighs 43.7g.
Both are marked 1 and 900....no die flaws that I can see.
Mike Downey

Mine's a Deschler 900 without swords, and weigh's 33.8g

Kind regards,

Marcus

Chris what details do you need scan wise, any specific details or close ups needed ?