L59 EKI markings....

[Tim Miller]

I just picked up this cross today. It came out of a nice little grouping from the nephew of a 1st Div vet (hopefully I'll be posting more items from the group in the next month or so). I did so a search on the L59 here and saw the mentioned "x" "." "s" and other marks. The marking I'm interested in is a series of numbers underneath the base of the pin. It looks like they were scratched off. Any ideas what they are/were for? Thanks for your time and consideration.

Tim

[Tim Miller]

Cross Front

Front

[Tim Miller]

Cross Back

Back

[Tim Miller]

"s", ".", & "l59"

Other Markings.

Thanks guys. Any ideas on the numbers under the base of the pin are greatly appreciated. Take care.

Tim

[Calvin Hall]

Hello Tim,

Nice cross. I dont recall ever seeing a L59 cross with the numbers beneath the hinge. Interesting.

[Douglas 5]

L59 markings

Hi Tim :
The L59 is a very interesting EK as to the numerous marks etc . Have started to look into those pin supplier and inspection marks more closely .
On yours I see the base ot the pin is stamped as well !
A 5 point star and a 5( probably) and a clear 9 . Can you tell if that is a 5 or not ?
As for the numbers under the pin , it would fit the explanation I was given when I got mine . The first early thin and tall hinge mount was not that strong and would sometimes break and the wide base pin hinge mount was put in its place . The thin pin mount was not used very long at all and soon replaced by the wider base mounts . Second hand info only to which I have no other backing .
It is hard to see if the pin has been replaced , can you tell ? However a repair may have been done . Even with the numbers being scratched over at least I may be close on the numbering .
There are more experianced collectors here than may have encountered this befor and have another explanation .
Taking a stab at the numbers they are :
0.1 4377 as to the best I can make out .
The 0.1 would indecate a repair done by the Ordenshersteller-Gemeinschaft, Pforzheim = Awardsmanufacturing - Co-op Pforzheim .
As there are 12 different numbers , this prefix was necessary to keep them appart . For the rest of the number just a guess....whatever the numbers are .....43 maybe year and 77 the repair persons number .???
Seeing the piece closeup ,,, it may help but who knows , the best indecation I can give without going to wild speculations .
Some enlargments to follow :
Regards Douglas

[Douglas 5]

Pic 2

[Douglas 5]

Pic 3

[skip]

The 0.1 would indecate a repair done by the Ordenshersteller-Gemeinschaft, Pforzheim = Awardsmanufacturing - Co-op Pforzheim .
As there are 12 different numbers , this prefix was necessary to keep them appart .

Hi Doug,

could you (or anybody else) please enlighten me as to were to find this infomation.

Thanks.
Skip

[Douglas 5]

codes

Hi Skip:

From about 1936 on very tight control over who could make what medals . As to repairs there seams to be no fix rules who could do repairs , so jewelers did
alot because of the fineness of work and other established companys .
Companies that had been around even befor WWI . The Pforzheim area had alot of WWI metal makers . Why this one was chosen , who knows, maybe the person lived there or went by established reputation ?
For that reason one runs into codes and markings of earlier medal makers and their use of older codes . I have run into this a few times now .
You will find the Pforzheim codes under the list of Hindenberg Cross Makers .
I got my list off another forum .
This is the location on the bottom of my printed sheet .
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...r=asc&start=15

Douglas

[George Stimson]

This is an interesting thread!
FWIW, I checked my three "L59" pinbacks and none of them has any kind of numerical (or other) marking under the hinge.

[skip]

Thanks Doug,

well I certainly missed that article on WAF. Anybody know of a link to it?

I think those are marks that you can find on the reverse of Hindenburg Crosses or not. I certainly have never encountered such numbering on any TR war badges.

The company names all seem to correspond with the logos or letters found on the reverse of Hindenburg Crosses but I******180;d sure like to know the source for matching the numbers to the companys, or was that on the Cross reverse as well?

Interesting markings on Tim******180;s cross. I looked at my L/59 and there was nothing similar.

Skip

[Tim Miller]

Hi Tim :
The L59 is a very interesting EK as to the numerous marks etc . Have started to look into those pin supplier and inspection marks more closely .
On yours I see the base ot the pin is stamped as well !
A 5 point star and a 5( probably) and a clear 9 . Can you tell if that is a 5 or not ?
Taking a stab at the numbers they are :
0.1 4377 as to the best I can make out .
The 0.1 would indecate a repair done by the Ordenshersteller-Gemeinschaft, Pforzheim = Awardsmanufacturing - Co-op Pforzheim .
As there are 12 different numbers , this prefix was necessary to keep them appart . For the rest of the number just a guess....whatever the numbers are .....43 maybe year and 77 the repair persons number .???
Seeing the piece closeup ,,, it may help but who knows , the best indecation I can give without going to wild speculations .
Some enlargments to follow :
Regards Douglas

Douglas,

Thanks, your input is greatly appreciated. You have quite an eagles eye. I hadn't even noticed the markings on the base of the pin until you brought them to my attention. Pretty sharp man! I wasn't expecting it there. I can barely see it with the naked eye. I tried several more attempts at getting a better shot and didn't do much better. It does look like a 5 from here, so I'm going with *59 on the base. I honestly can't tell if it has been replaced or not, though your explanation does make sense to me. In the hand, minus the flash - the last three numbers look to be 257 (the 7 having the hash through the center)... from here (my shot in the dark too) is either 01.4257 or 0.14257 there seems to be a space between the 01 and the rest of the numbers.

L59 sure did like marking up their EK's. Makes for an interesting maker/cross to collect as there are quite a few different examples. I mentioned earlier to Calvin in a PM - can you imagine what a waffenamped/inspector marked weapon would have looked like from them (if they had produced firearms)?

Thanks to everybody who contributed to this thread. Guess the cross is a keeper.

[Douglas 5]

Markings

Yes Tim :
A very interesting EK as to having the most variations and marking combinations , from a rough 'max' mathematical combinations of 108 which we will never find but more likely up to 20 combinations including vaulted and flat L59s .
Douglas

[Douglas 5]

Mark

Hi Tim :
Took a while to find a real good close up of that Pforzheim marking :
this one a 0.12 .
Douglas