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S.O.S. How to save EK1?

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    #31
    Originally posted by Tiger 1
    Gentlemen,

    Excuse me for my momentary fight of fancy. I was just having s ome fun.

    With any attempt at meaningful conservation we must first access the problem and then apply the minimum remedy necessary to correct it. It is always better to go very slow and progressively up the effort needed to clean something while keeping a close eye on your progress than to try to fix an avoidable problem that usually happens when too aggressive of a method is used at the start. If you are not sure of your skills or confidence at doing this then the prudent course it not to or have someone who is familiar do it for you.

    In the case of Indy's EKI the problem was basically a surface problem that was caught early on. The rust was not to the point of seriously bitting the host metal and becoming corrosion. It was basically a surface 'bloom'. There was no reason to use a more aggressive method to solve the problem. I did not choose to boil the rust as it had not taken hold in the core metal. It was easily removed and didn't need to be converted thru boiling. Here's where experience dictates a prudent course of action.

    What I did was use a VERY soft worn tooth brush and some warm water and Ivory brand soap. I happen to like Ivory soap because it is 99% pure and generally ph neutral. It also rinses from the surface without leaving a residue.

    After making sure that the painted surface was sound I carefully wetted the cross and GENTLY washed it with a wet toothbrush loaded up a bit with soap. The soap not only removes the grime and loose rust it also acts as a lubricant to float the crud and to prevent scratching. In regards to scratching, both the cross and the brush were rinsed clean several times during the wash to prevent the loosened rust from acting as an abrasive. Checking progress as I was going along I quit when the rust was removed. Nothing is gained by overworking the surface. You will not bring it back to new, nor do we want to.

    After a thorough rinsing with hot water, the cross was shaken in several directions to remove as much trapped water from inside the frame. Complete the drying with a hairdryer. Shake again to be sure there is no further moisture trapped in the frame. Repeat as offen as necessary to completely dry.

    Further prevention included a wax to lightly seal the clean surface. I happen to like Birchwood Casey Gun wax. It is a combination of waxes including a bee's wax and silicone. It is also easily removalbe if needed.

    I haven't had any problems with this method of conservation WHEN needed. Many times nothing is needed and it is best to leave a valued collectable alone and not try to 'improve' it. Always keep in mind that anything done to the surface of a medal moves it just that much farther away from original condition. Original condition is like virginity.....Once gone you will never get it back!

    I hope this helps with understanding some steps that can be used , when necessary, in preserving a valued collectable.

    All the best,

    Tony
    Can this method be done with a EK2 -1914?

    greatings

    Edgar

    Comment


      #32
      ek 1914

      Originally posted by Tiger 1
      Gentlemen,

      Excuse me for my momentary fight of fancy. I was just having s ome fun.

      With any attempt at meaningful conservation we must first access the problem and then apply the minimum remedy necessary to correct it. It is always better to go very slow and progressively up the effort needed to clean something while keeping a close eye on your progress than to try to fix an avoidable problem that usually happens when too aggressive of a method is used at the start. If you are not sure of your skills or confidence at doing this then the prudent course it not to or have someone who is familiar do it for you.

      In the case of Indy's EKI the problem was basically a surface problem that was caught early on. The rust was not to the point of seriously bitting the host metal and becoming corrosion. It was basically a surface 'bloom'. There was no reason to use a more aggressive method to solve the problem. I did not choose to boil the rust as it had not taken hold in the core metal. It was easily removed and didn't need to be converted thru boiling. Here's where experience dictates a prudent course of action.

      What I did was use a VERY soft worn tooth brush and some warm water and Ivory brand soap. I happen to like Ivory soap because it is 99% pure and generally ph neutral. It also rinses from the surface without leaving a residue.

      After making sure that the painted surface was sound I carefully wetted the cross and GENTLY washed it with a wet toothbrush loaded up a bit with soap. The soap not only removes the grime and loose rust it also acts as a lubricant to float the crud and to prevent scratching. In regards to scratching, both the cross and the brush were rinsed clean several times during the wash to prevent the loosened rust from acting as an abrasive. Checking progress as I was going along I quit when the rust was removed. Nothing is gained by overworking the surface. You will not bring it back to new, nor do we want to.

      After a thorough rinsing with hot water, the cross was shaken in several directions to remove as much trapped water from inside the frame. Complete the drying with a hairdryer. Shake again to be sure there is no further moisture trapped in the frame. Repeat as offen as necessary to completely dry.

      Further prevention included a wax to lightly seal the clean surface. I happen to like Birchwood Casey Gun wax. It is a combination of waxes including a bee's wax and silicone. It is also easily removalbe if needed.

      I haven't had any problems with this method of conservation WHEN needed. Many times nothing is needed and it is best to leave a valued collectable alone and not try to 'improve' it. Always keep in mind that anything done to the surface of a medal moves it just that much farther away from original condition. Original condition is like virginity.....Once gone you will never get it back!

      I hope this helps with understanding some steps that can be used , when necessary, in preserving a valued collectable.

      All the best,

      Tony
      can this method be used on a EK2-1914?

      Greatings,

      Edgar

      Comment


        #33
        .
        Last edited by Jim Baker; 01-02-2006, 11:59 AM.

        Comment


          #34
          Before collectors start to boil all their crosses, keep in mind that it removes fresh paint as well. In this photo we can see how the paint on the swastika has been thinned out and removed in rather large chunks. Think twice before you boil your crosses.

          Cheers and Happy New Year to all. Boilers and non boilers
          Peter

          Indy's cross:
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Peter Wiking; 01-01-2006, 01:10 PM.

          Comment


            #35
            Tony, the results on Indy's cross were great. Will all painted surfaces (enamel, acrylic, etc.) react as in Peter's pictures?

            John
            Last edited by usmedalman; 01-01-2006, 12:18 PM.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by usmedalman
              Tony, the results on Indy's cross were great. Will all painted surfaces (enamel, acrylic, etc.) react as in Peter's pictures?

              John
              The pictures are of Indy's cross.

              Cheers.
              Peter

              Comment


                #37
                Boiled Zimmermann Supreme

                I got a rusty Zimmermann two weeks ago from Det. I heated a cup of water in a microwave to boiling, and held the cross by the pin in the water for just less than a minute. The rust turned dark, and I let the cross air dry. I was careful to not rub on the paint. There are several places where the paint was already off, and the cross still matches the expertise photo exactly, only the hideous red color is gone. Used a light coating of wd-40 afterward. Did anyone notice lots of air bubbles escaping around the frame when it was placed in the water?

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by FW 200
                  I got a rusty Zimmermann two weeks ago from Det. I heated a cup of water in a microwave to boiling, and held the cross by the pin in the water for just less than a minute. The rust turned dark, and I let the cross air dry. I was careful to not rub on the paint. There are several places where the paint was already off, and the cross still matches the expertise photo exactly, only the hideous red color is gone. Used a light coating of wd-40 afterward. Did anyone notice lots of air bubbles escaping around the frame when it was placed in the water?
                  Got any before and after shots mate?

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Peter Wiking
                    Before collectors start to boil all their crosses, keep in mind that it removes fresh paint as well. In this photo we can see how the paint on the swastika has been thinned out and removed in rather large chunks. Think twice before you boil your crosses.

                    Cheers and Happy New Year to all. Boilers and non boilers
                    Peter

                    Indy's cross:

                    Hello Peter,

                    Interesting contrast of the two pictures of Indy's EK. I can assure you that in real life the difference is not as drastic as you show. A true comparision would be to photograph the before and after results in the same light as Indy seems to have done.

                    I would suggest that you reread post #25. I specifically noted the procedure used on Indy's EK. I did not boil this EK as the rust bloom was very light and easily removed thru a lesser process. We have to remember to use the least aggressive method first in any attempt at conservation.

                    I am often leery of posting various conservation methods that work for me. All methods of conservation require a careful look and understanding of what the problem is and what one desires to achieve as an end result before any actions are taken. I say this because the results are not necessarily the same for all EKs due to the different core treatments used by different manufacturors. A good amount of previous experience (some may correctly interpret that as learning from previous mistakes) comes into play.

                    Boiling will not remove 'fresh' paint. If there is fresh paint on an EK then it has been recently painted. All paint on period EKs are not fresh and are degraded by age to a greater or lesser extent. Some surfaces are very intact and stable while others are compromised by rusting or other reasons of the paint not adhering well to the iron core after the passage of many decades. This another reason why I can't overemphasize the imortance of carefully studying what the true condition is and knowing what you wish to acomplish before you start any course of action. If one is unsure about this or is unable to make rational decisions then the best course of action would be to do nothing and let the effects of time take it's inevitable toll.

                    Any conservation effort is a balancing act where the merits of an action have to be weighed with the results desired tempered with the possibilty of an unknown result at times. This is also true of most things in life.

                    I mentioned several processes that have worked well for me. I should again caution everyone that any method of conservation recommended by anyone is not 100% guaranteed by any means. There are some risks involved in any course of action and the final responsibility to go forward with any method remains with the individual.

                    Hope everyone had a safe and Happy New Year.

                    All the best!

                    Tony
                    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

                    "First ponder, then dare." von Moltke

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Tony.
                      I try again. Boiling, rubbing, brushing, oiling...What ever was done removed paint from the core in my opinion. In particular on the swastika. Both photos are from Indy. I have only made them brighter. It looks like they are photographed in the same lokation and with the same light condition using the same camera angle.

                      Cheers.
                      Peter
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Jesus christ man , what have you done to a perfectly good cross , i would not give you £30 quid for that now , did you use a brillo pad or something , my secret is Acid , dip that **** in perfectly good nitric acid and watch that mother gleam

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by RAVEN
                          Jesus christ man , what have you done to a perfectly good cross , i would not give you £30 quid for that now , did you use a brillo pad or something , my secret is Acid , dip that **** in perfectly good nitric acid and watch that mother gleam

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Raven,

                            What I know is, it looks quite normal in real time, it's not for sale and Indy was pleased with the results. Now, that is what really matters, don't you think?

                            Tony
                            An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.

                            "First ponder, then dare." von Moltke

                            Comment

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