Wide frame vs. Ubergross/Oversized

[jani_tiainen]

Dear Friends,

I got "24" marked EK2 with old Detlevs COA. This Cross is described as Ubergross variarion and price 750 DM (Which was a lot for EK2 five years ago).

I am confused - Is this typical "24" marked, which is nowadays called "wide frame" - or is this Widewide frame Ubergross variation???

It is impossible, that typical "wide frame" would cost that much as in COA five years ago - or was it just figured out later that its not so rare and price dropped???

Widht is 46mm.

I would appreciate any help,

Jani

[tinmantis]

here's a typical '24', but without my rule I'm not much help today!
compared yours DOES look very wide framed indeed. Hopefully a member can remember the measurements...
regards
jon

[Darrell]

From page 66 in Gordon's book:

... slightly larger than a normal EK at 47.5mm.

Compare to typical RK width of 48mm and usual 2nd Class at 44mm.

[gaz]

hi jani
the 24 marked eks are whats known as the wide frame eks meaning the outer frame is wider than normal and most wide frames measure around 45 mm there are also unmarked examples that measure similar .Compared to the standard 44mm eks. Whereas the ubergrosse is a completly bigger cross not just the frame and measures around 47.5mm and dont have a makers mark, it is not the same as a maker 24 cross. Yours seems to fall in between the wide frame and ubergrosse size.there has been speculation that the ubergrosse was a prototype for the knights cross but there is no proof to that theory as far as i know.I think that the wide framed eks sell for around the same as a standard size ek2 or maybe a little more depending on the seller ,whereas the ubergrosse sells for 8 or 9 times more than a standard ek on average. hope this helps
regards gaz

[jani_tiainen]

Thanks gaz and everybody!
That information was exactly what I was looking for!!!

I appreciate your help,

Jani

[Bob Hritz]

Here is a comparison shot of my Upergross Iron Cross 2nd Class with a Juncker Knight's Cross.

Bob Hritz

[bratwurstdimsum]

.there has been speculation that the ubergrosse was a prototype for the knights cross but there is no proof to that theory as far as i know.

If I apply the old p...(uknowwhat) ... envy theory that is universal to man (whether its prussian or chinese), I would have thought it was the other way round...Ubergrosse was a prototype ek2, the OKW took one look at it and probably thought the poor sods who had to slave to get a Ritterkreuz didn't deserve to be outsized (or equal-sized) by a lowly ek2

Jeff

[George Stimson]

Here's an Ubergrosse (left) compared to a "24"-marked EK 2 (right).

[jani_tiainen]

Thanks for everybody! I see the difference between ubergross and wide frame, but what concerns me is the value on COA.

Why Detlev estimated this wide frame to cost more five years ago than they actually cost today?

Jani