My first EK1, what do you think?

[janvs]

Hi all,

Here is my first EK1. What do you think? Did I get had? I've tried to learn from you all by reading your past posts, but I'm still VERY unsure of myself. Thanks, I appreciate your help!
Sincerely,
janvs

[Rich G]

Janvus

This looks very much like the Floch fake that comes with all sorts of marker marks, though more often L21 or L15.

My advice is do not buy this, or if you have, return it immediately.


Rich

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear janvs,

In my opinion your suspicions are rectified, the cross looks suspicious:

-the maker mark is not right
-the position of the maker mark is not right
-the date 1939 sits too low, too close on the rim
-the cross in overall shape resembles the known L15 fake by Floch, Vienna.

Cheers, Frank

[George Stimson]

Not an S&L EK 1.

George

[Volkbert]

IMO the rim is not very deep'. It could be from heavy wearing but the two crosses I have have much deeper rims.

[janvs]

Thank you guys

I suspected this. I also purchased a silver IAB from this dealer that turned out to be bad as well. Thankfully, I have full return priveledges for 30 days and I purchased them only yesterday.

Sincerely,

janvs

[David Tiffin]

I agree with everyone, looks bad to me. Don't like the pin. Who did you get them from?

[Dave Kane]

Floch!!!

I see here very often references to Johanes Floch and 'HIS' medals, badges etc. I think by now (you) know how I feel about dealers ( I was chastised again by Seba in this past week) but, I wouldn't place John among these people! He was merely the the avenue from which 'dealers' got their stock. He was very up-front when asked about his product and I'll quote " This is not for you it's for the dealers"! Heck, he can't control what these people do or say afterward! So there-in lies the problem...Let's not beat John up but, identify the dealers who bought the suit cases full of product from John and now are a part of many collections......I recall 'dealers' lining up in front of his tables to get their turn to leave him with handfulls of Dollars just to run off and await the 'public's' entry to the show!
John is a decent man in my opinion and just like the gun manufacturers shouldn't be held liable for the 'product'!!
John

[janvs]

With all respect John J.,

to what purpose, other than fraud, is the manufacture of these fake EK1s?

If this guy is on the moral highground, why didn't he stamp them "replica?" I find it impossible to believe that these could be manufactured, without such an indentifier, without the espress purpose of fraud.

I do agree with you that the dealer is to blame as well.

Mr. Tiffin, as per your question, stay posted...

[Pascal H.]

Hi Janvs,

I’m afraid that I have to agree with the others. I think that this cross looks very suspicious.
To compare I will post some pics of a real S&L EKI.

Pascal

[Pascal H.]

Back with makers mark

[Dez H]

He was very up-front when asked about his product and I'll quote " This is not for you it's for the dealers"! Heck, he can't control what these people do or say afterward! So there-in lies the problem...Let's not beat John up but,

John why couldn’t he then stamp his pieces on the reverse as REPO or c2002 made if they weren’t truly made to deceive? Your friends intentions may have only been to make a buck and get by, but how could you have it on your conscience that you have aided in ripping off countless people for their hard earned dollars? Call me an idealist but I wouldn’t want that honour.
Anyway we are getting off topic here and if we wish to discuss this we should start up another thread. Janvs; I have to agree with the previous comments. I can only echo the pin and hinge on this piece is clearly that on the infamous L15 fakes and should be returned to where it came from as quickly as possible.


Regards
Dez

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear John J,

You are a very forgiving person. To draw a comparison, this would be like "do not blame the druglord for his product, it is only the dealers who are bad". I strongly disagree. The root has to be eradicated, not the branches. They can´t help but grow, it is their nature.

Cheers, Frank

[janvs]

Hi all,

Just got off the phone with the dealer in question, and he has offered a complete and timely refund upon the return of the "offending" items. This was a point I was very clear with him about prior to the purchase.

At this point, I'm not convinced that the dealer was knowingly selling these as fakes. Because of this, I'm going to let it die there.

Thank you all for your help. I can' tell you how much of a resource you all are for the beginner. To have people that (for the most part) are financially independent of the transaction in question is most helpful.

Sincerely,
janvs

[Bruce Simcox]

John.....

.....

I see here very often references to Johanes Floch and 'HIS' medals, badges etc......He was merely the the avenue from which 'dealers' got their stock. He was very up-front when asked about his product and I'll quote " This is not for you it's for the dealers"! Heck, he can't control what these people do or say afterward! So there-in lies the problem...

These are the pertinent excerpts from your posted statement. The rest is, in my opinion, unnecessary and I think that anyone with a clear mind can see why.

Now then, I would suppose if someone was to examine the behavior of Saddam H. (let us say just after delivery to Osama Bin L. of some nuclear or biological weapons) using the logic of this attitude then we should be able to say something like " Heck, he can't control what these people do or say afterward! So there-in lies the problem."

Then it should be perfectly reasonable, using the above display of logic perhaps, to let Saddam go on ahead and supply little Ossama Bin L. with whatever playtoys he would like to have and use in whatever manner he chooses and let's not blame Saddam because

"! Heck, he can't control what these people do or say afterward! So there-in lies the problem...

Here's another one that I don't quite see the idea behind:

This is not for you it's for the dealers"!

I am hopeful that you will see my point that it isn't OK to supply FAKE memoribilia that will end up in the hands of unsuspecting and trusting people when it is known all along that someone is going to get fleeced. Merely being the supplier does not mean that the responsibility of providing to the marketplace these FAKES is no longer of your concern.

I would further venture that it is precisely this type of illogic, under discussion here, that has made things as screwed up as they are today.

Of course this is my personal opinion on this matter.

-------------------------

Bruce