S&L 935/4

[Brian S]

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[Brian S]

Why are these mint examples wartime, Dave?

[Brian S]

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[Brian S]

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[George Stimson]

Christ, I can't go out for the evening without this happening? And now that I'm home I'm supposed to go through this and diplomatically referee it? No way. I'm closing it and going to bed. Maybe we can open it up again tomorrow morning.

[George Stimson]

I had to rent a street sweeper, but I managed to clean up this thread. If anyone wants to continue this fascinating discussion, be my guest. But any further divergences as occurred here will not be tolerated. And if any members engage in any more baiting or insulting behavior I will request that the Administrator expel them.

[tom hansen]

I think the differences between the "A" type and "B" type S&L crosses are pretty clear.


I am a little hazy on the issue of the clear and indistinct dent row. Could anyone who is well versed in this issue and has clear photos of different examples of a wartime. postwar, and '57 cross post them? It seems as though that is the crux of the above discussion and would be helpful.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Here is at least a rough overview which should be refined with more models and types. But at least it shows the deterioration over time.

[Dietrich Maerz]

Here's another one. A 800 marked early 57. The dent row really is very nice defined.

[Dietrich Maerz]

And here is the dent row of a 800-4 piece.

[George Stimson]

I'd like to see the dent row on an RK with provenance from Schloss Klessheim.

[Thomas H]

Thomas, mine is 800 marked! And, with the typical conical tip.

Hi Dave thanks for posting that pic.

Does your cross also have the inside of the suspension loop looks like it has been purposely finished to a flat surface?

The Loop I posted is marked 935 and has it, but it looks not as nicely as the cross in question.

Does someone know what the Silvercontentnumber is of this cross?

Thomas

[Brian S]

Here is at least a rough overview which should be refined with more models and types. But at least it shows the deterioration over time.

I'm not convinced what you are saying is deterioration of the die? If that is what you are saying I don't see that.

I see metal. silver, that has various appearances. Why? In Dietrich's logic there is one and only one reason, the die.

There is so much more.

1) Yes, the die.

2) Wear.

3) The effect of frosting on the surface.

4) Environmental factors affecting the surface.

5) Collector handling of cross, fingers fingers fingers rubbing pieces. Huge cause of wear on crosses. Cleaning. Polishing.

6) Final finishing by the SL firm. You think as they were assembling and finishing the product THEY didn't notice the blemishes? A little buff here and there to shine and make it a little more mint looking.

I'm sure there's more, that's off the top of my head.

You have three examples shown, that is meaningless.

This discussion has from one member continually centered around these Type B mint in the box. That has become the "bar" to which all others must aspire and moderators have done nothing to quiet this yelling of FAKE. You wonder why I'm yelling back George and Dietrich? Be serious. This is EXACTLY what the owner of this site said would NOT happen. I was threatened with expulsion for quoating Gordon and asking about KQ restrikes and 21 oaks/swords restrikes. The mere asking was considered the worst possible crime. But you allow the screaming of fake?

Nothing personal in this last paragraph, but if you allow the yelling of fake without the slightest bit of proof or examination what do you really expect?

You moderators determine that the bar is mint in box dent row characteristics then so be it. I'm done with it. You moderate, you decide, how can I fight that? It's pointless. But by allowing this mantra by a guy with a mint cross in a box say over and over puts it into the public mind as a 'truth'. I don't think that it is a 'truth' and until proven, certainly won't be for me.

So for me, as long as the Type B is questioned in any of its forms, they are ALL suspect. And what AGAIN is Detlev's take on these 935/4's?

[George Stimson]

Brian, I don't know anything about the Gordon/K&Q/Oaks incident, and I don't want to.

I did not delete your requests that Dave show the evidence for his belief that the cross in question is wartime. I believe that that is the relevant question here.

[Brian S]

Brian, I don't know anything about the Gordon/K&Q/Oaks incident, and I don't want to.

I did not delete your requests that Dave show the evidence for his belief that the cross in question is wartime. I believe that that is the relevant question here.

You're absolutely right, but it should not be laced with screaming fake and me and look at my mint boxed 935/4. Duh, they are all mint...