Iron cross

[Steve.uk]

Real or fake????
I ask because I dont have a clue.

Thanks
Steve

[Hank C.]

It looks probably good from these pics, but VERY hard to tell...by the hump on the top for the attachment ring, could be a W&L. Any chance of better pictures?

Hank

[bodes]

Steve, My thoughts are it's bad.....I believe the loop on top of the medal is wrong.......Should be looping through the very top of the medal instead of sitting on top of it.....Hope this makes sense.......Bodes

[Mike Kenny]

Steve, My thoughts are it's bad.....I believe the loop on top of the medal is wrong.......Should be looping through the very top of the medal instead of sitting on top of it.....Hope this makes sense.......Bodes

Hi,

Bodes, I have to disagree with that. A lot of early (especially pre-Gablonzer method) EK2s had this lug and it's normally a good sign (although I'm sure now also found on fakes).

Steve, the cross looks OK from what I can see but a word of advice - if you don't have a clue you should be researching for yourself first, not relying on a dealer or even on the forum. It's a sure way to get burnt otherwise.

Regards
Mike K

PS: Steve, I just picked up from the badges forum that you aren't a collector as such. Don't take my advice harshly!

[bodes]

Mike, No arguments here as iron crosses are not my forte.....It was just one of the things I was always taught to look out for.....One of the more frustrating aspects of this hobby......When certain rules are learned, there always seems to be an exception....Bodes

[keifer kahn]

Cross looks good.I agree with Mike,The hump is far from being the exception( I cant recall a repro with the hump)

Iron crosses marked 100 (Rudol Wachtler & lang in Mittwaida) and L/12 Juncker have the hump.
The hump can also be seen on KO marked Imperial EK2s.
Im quite sure some other makers uses the hump.

[Steve.uk]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Is this what you mean by the hump? the bit at the top where the ring attaches to the cross???
If so it looks like it is part of the cross rather than a solder or weld in real life, if you understand what I mean.

Steve

[keifer kahn]

It is certainly part of the frame and not odd at all.

[bodes]

It's truly amazing how times have changed.....When I started collecting seriously in the 80's, some fellow collectors I know would've looked with suspicion at an iron cross like this.....Remember that was also the time when people said not to buy RZM marked items minus the double ring or lacking the slash in the Z......These rules have since been proved wrong...... Bodes

[franki]

Hello,
as already said it looks like a W&L.
It has 2 typical signs of it: Date in shape and position and the hump.
So I would say it is a good W&L.

Best Franki

[keifer kahn]

HI Bodes,

I think we are a bit better educated now.
I remember the single RZM circle and slash issues.I always thought that was wrong(there are enough nice originals out there with a single circle) and i believe Robin Lumsden,s book from the late 70,s (Detecting the Fakes) was one of the main reasons people believed that.Robin has since on this forum conceded that it was error stating that and he based that statement on what he thought at the time.
That aside,the Standards pertaining to the RZM in the official regulations state that the acceptible and authorised version of the RZM mark are single or double circle,Z with or with out a slash.

[bodes]

Keifer, I went on to deduce the same thing when I obtained an original political leaders gorget from a veteran......The RZM is minus the slash in the Z.......And not long after that picked up a nice HJ nickel buckle with the single circle......Bodes

[keifer kahn]

Hi Bodes,

I too have nice HJ single circle rzm marked buckle.Mine is Nickel plated Steel by steinhauer and luck.

There was a book available some years back that was dedicated to RZM marks,ill try and source the name and find out if its still available(IM going off memory but i think it was "Guide to the RZM".It came out some years after Robins book but certainly wasnt as well known.The author used to frequent GDC.That book also contained the official regulations and and standards for the RZM mark.