knight cross "mappe"

[johnkyens]

Hello guys, recently I see two type certificate of KC with different type of eagle,are they all orignal ?

Type1:
kcc1.jpg
kcc2.jpg
Type2:
kcc21.png kcc22.png kcc33.png

[chen]

Do you mean the eagle on the red mappe cover or the eagle on the certificate?

[johnkyens]

Do you mean the eagle on the red mappe cover or the eagle on the certificate?

Yes,I think there is also big difference between the swastikas on the cover.

[Waffenreich]

The Mappe with the eagle shown as Type 1 (full swastika with no internal detailing) is not for a Knight's Cross urkunde. They also bear the Frieda Thiersch mark, have the edge "dot" detailing, but are thinner, and do not have the internal borders/finishing of the Moroccan leather that encases the panel "lining" or covering. These have been used extensively over the years by unscrupulous individuals to increase the value of orphan urkunden by stating they're variations or late war blah, blah. I have had two of these and although they can accommodate an RK urkunde I have been told they are Mappe for formal documents such promotions of high ranking Heer personnel, or other awards (don't know which though) and don't even know if that's true. I also know some very good quality fake Mappe were made in London in the late 70s/early 80s and these may very well be them that just took on a life of their own.

I'm sure others with more expertise will add commentary. Nonetheless, it is a nice Mappe and if they are original are worth having if you can get them around $700 or less.

vr

Bob

[johnkyens]

The Mappe with the eagle shown as Type 1 (full swastika with no internal detailing) is not for a Knight's Cross urkunde. They also bear the Frieda Thiersch mark, have the edge "dot" detailing, but are thinner, and do not have the internal borders/finishing of the Moroccan leather that encases the panel "lining" or covering. These have been used extensively over the years by unscrupulous individuals to increase the value of orphan urkunden by stating they're variations or late war blah, blah. I have had two of these and although they can accommodate an RK urkunde I have been told they are Mappe for formal documents such promotions of high ranking Heer personnel, or other awards (don't know which though) and don't even know if that's true. I also know some very good quality fake Mappe were made in London in the late 70s/early 80s and these may very well be them that just took on a life of their own.

I'm sure others with more expertise will add commentary. Nonetheless, it is a nice Mappe and if they are original are worth having if you can get them around $700 or less.

vr

Bob

Thanks Bob,that do make a lot of help,looking for more comments.
BTW also looking for someone can post some examples of fake Mappe,lots of guys collect crosses,but maybe not enough attention for the urkunde.

[Waffenreich]

Thanks Bob,that do make a lot of help,looking for more comments.
BTW also looking for someone can post some examples of fake Mappe,lots of guys collect crosses,but maybe not enough attention for the urkunde.

You're welcome John.

Two points - not many guys who have original urkunden are going to have a repro Mappe, and not many guys who have original urkunden want many people to know they have original urkunden.

Here is a great Thread showing Urkunden, Mappen, etc... https://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...-crosses-today

Best regards!

Bob

[johnkyens]

You're welcome John.

Two points - not many guys who have original urkunden are going to have a repro Mappe, and not many guys who have original urkunden want many people to know they have original urkunden.

Here is a great Thread showing Urkunden, Mappen, etc... https://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...-crosses-today

Best regards!

Bob

I see some thread metion there exist some really good repo and hard to distinguish from a orgnial one.for example this one:
https://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...t=39702&page=2
but the link of the repo has already dead,hardly to find examples of repos.????

Best Regards,
John