Iron Cross 1939 First Class Spange, 2nd Type by Otto Schinkle

[mevm36]

Hi Gents,

What do you think of the following spange?

6A0ED318-9E8C-4B60-B879-F5324DA9639A.jpeg

6E7F29B3-6FF5-43BC-9E46-563EA2F14B3E.jpeg

61E0B69A-FE4D-4F69-B99B-F4416CE867E5.jpeg

[Vit67]

I think it's legit. But not 2nd type by Schickle. Hinge is not specific. By that i am saying that we can't say 100% it made by Otto Schickle it is more likely done by some other manufacturer who used design and tools purchased from Otto.

[Patrick W]

raptor fake for me

[mevm36]

To me it has the same characteristics as the Schinkle 2nd type such as the low profile barrel hinge, tapered vertical pin, round wire variant catch as well as the trace of a “vein” in the upper right wing closest to the eagle. It is difficult to see it in my photo as the resolution is not that crisp, however it is there, where as the left wing does not have this. It also is silvered tombac. I do not think it is a fake but anything is possible.

Marcus

[Patrick W]

Have a closer look at the shoulders of the eagle, particularly from the reverse and compare to an original Schickle clasp- hopefully what this is will then become very evident.

they look like Affiliated Auctions photos? well known for selling loads of fakes- if you bid on this you may as well set fire to your money,.

[rbminis]

I agree with Patrick, a raptor fake for me as well.
Here is a real Otto Schickle, compare the shoulders from the reverse.
Ralph.


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[mevm36]

Yes indeed this is a Schickle illustrated, and I agree the shoulders are quite different. I am still hesitant to say that the one I posted is a raptor. As you can clearly see the pins are different as the pin on the spange I posted is the flat type whereas the one above is the arced type. Also the beading if compared to a Raptor has noticable differences and there are subtle differences to the general outline of the pieces.

Respectfully

Marcus

[rbminis]

The shoulders on a type 1 and a type 2 are the same, as is the obverse.
The only difference is the hinge and pin.
The straight vertical edges of the shoulders indicates a raptor fake.
Ralph.

[mevm36]

The shoulders on a type 1 and a type 2 are the same, as is the obverse.
The only difference is the hinge and pin.
The straight vertical edges of the shoulders indicates a raptor fake.
Ralph.

Well thanks gents, I guess I cannot disagree with that. Thanks so much for everyones observations. Very much appreciated and respected.

Cheers

Marcus

[rbminis]

Well thanks gents, I guess I cannot disagree with that. Thanks so much for everyones observations. Very much appreciated and respected.

Cheers

Marcus

Here is another that you might find interesting, IMO, it is a B.H. Mayer with Schickle hardware.
Notice the shoulders.
Ralph.


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[mevm36]

Was it commonplace for one manufacturer to utilize the hardware from another? This does not seem to make sense.

Marcus

Here is another that you might find interesting, IMO, it is a B.H. Mayer with Schickle hardware.
Notice the shoulders.
Ralph.


0.JPG 1.JPG

[rbminis]

Was it commonplace for one manufacturer to utilize the hardware from another? This does not seem to make sense.

Marcus

It was for B.H. Mayer and Otto Schickle.
Schickle lost their license, and it is believed that Mayer took over stocks, and tooling.
Ralph.