Knights Cross vs. Medal of Honor

[VtwinVince]

For real rarity in terms of award numbers, I don't think even the VC comes close to the Conspicuous Gallantry Medal (CGM), I believe an equivalent to the Prussian Militaerverdienstkreuz.

[MH184]

Quote : ''Remember that the CMOH was the only medal for valor up until 1914''



Charlie,

What was the medal America introduced in 1914 for valour ? I though America had no Valour system until Jan 1918 ? (Apart fom the CMoH) Then it was only the Distinguished Service Cross for the army.

It took 13 months mre for the Naval DSC to be established by an Act of Congress and the poor old Air Force 1960.

Silver Star established in August 1932

Distinguished Flying Cross, 2 July 1926

Soldiers Medal, July 1926

Navy & Marine Corps Medal, August 1942

Airmans Medal, 1960

Coast guard Medal, August 1949

Bronze Star, Feb 1944

Air Medal, May 1942

(All awards could be retrospectively awarded)

Then it's onto the Commendation sorts, the earliest being August 1947 and aptly the Coast Guard Commendation Medal.


Kr

Marcus

[rexmundi]

Can we compare the KC to the Hero of the Sovjet union? An Award given for bravery and to army leaders.. ?

[coastie]

Quote : ''Remember that the CMOH was the only medal for valor up until 1914''



Charlie,

What was the medal America introduced in 1914 for valour ? I though America had no Valour system until Jan 1918 ? (Apart fom the CMoH) Then it was only the Distinguished Service Cross for the army.

It took 13 months mre for the Naval DSC to be established by an Act of Congress and the poor old Air Force 1960.

Silver Star established in August 1932

Distinguished Flying Cross, 2 July 1926

Soldiers Medal, July 1926

Navy & Marine Corps Medal, August 1942

Airmans Medal, 1960

Coast guard Medal, August 1949

Bronze Star, Feb 1944

Air Medal, May 1942

(All awards could be retrospectively awarded)

Then it's onto the Commendation sorts, the earliest being August 1947 and aptly the Coast Guard Commendation Medal.


Kr

Marcus

My Bad! I'm off a couple of years for the DSC

[MH184]

Sorry about that my American cousin ......I collect Amercian medals too. And I was racking the old brains thinking what could it be ??????


Kr

Marcus

[Jim Baker]

Actually, MacArthur WAS awarded the CMOH!

Yes John, I believe you are right, and if I'm not mistaken, so was his father, being the only father-son winners.

Anyone have this info?? Thanks.

And just as a bit of fun, Thomas Custer won the MoH twice. That must have pissed George off.

EDIT: Here's Arthur MacArthur, Jr.:
Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, and Adjutant, 24th Wisconsin Infantry. Place and date: At Missionary Ridge, Tenn., 25 November 1863. Entered service at: Milwaukee, Wis. Birth: Springfield, Mass. Date of issue: 30 June 1890. Citation: Seized the colors of his regiment at a critical moment and planted them on the captured works on the crest of Missionary Ridge.

Douglas MacArthur:

Rank and organization: General, U.S. Army, commanding U.S. Army Forces in the Far East. Place and date: Bataan Peninsula, Philippine Islands. Entered service at: Ashland, Wis. Birth: Little Rock, Ark. G.O. No.: 16, 1 April 1942. For conspicuous leadership in preparing the Philippine Islands to resist conquest, for gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action against invading Japanese forces, and for the heroic conduct of defensive and offensive operations on the Bataan Peninsula. He mobilized, trained, and led an army which has received world acclaim for its gallant defense against a tremendous superiority of enemy forces in men and arms. His utter disregard of personal danger under heavy fire and aerial bombardment, his calm judgment in each crisis, inspired his troops, galvanized the spirit of resistance of the Filipino people, and confirmed the faith of the American people in their Armed Forces.

[Jim Baker]

You are correct that it's all service and all wars.

Remember that the CMOH was the only medal for valor up until 1914.

There were 1520 MOH's during the Civil War and were awarded for Capturing or defending the Colors of a Regiment (no small feat mind you, but would probably rate a Silver star by today's standard)

And there were some two time winners as well. I was researching one of my Dad's old ships, the USS John King (DDG-3), and discovered it's name sake won the award twice for bravery of a non combat nature. It seems he won them both as the result of bravery during boiler accidents. Here's the only likeness I've been able to find of him.

[Jim Baker]

Here's a good site for the MoH.

http://www.medalofhonor.com/


Don't anyone jump me here, but this is one of the strangest citations I've read for the medal. It's part of Stockdale's.

"James Stockdale...deliberately inflicted a near-mortal wound to his person in order to convince his captors of his willingness to give up his life rather than capitulate. He was subsequently discovered and revived by the North Vietnamese who, convinced of his indomitable spirit, abated in their employment of excessive harassment and torture toward all of the Prisoners of War."

[Jim Baker]

I tend to disagree and agree, I mean as history dictates lets view it as the CMoH was around before the RK (1861 army then naval 1862 and lastly the airforce 1967) as such and America didn't even have a proper army...armed forces until perhaps the late 30's even. They had numerical soldiers, but weren't even a force until late 1918 early1919, yeah they were made up in numbers certainly in the end, but structure no.

Actually, the NAVY was first. Here are the Civil War versions. Simplicity. You gotta love it.

[Jim Baker]

And how about this guy. Another non combat award. Sorry guys, I love this stuff.

[Jim Baker]

A few examples from Medal of Honor citations won in the Huertgen illustrate the desperate kind of heroism fighting in the forest inspired. First Lt. Bernard J. Ray, Company F. 8th Infantry, 4th Infantry Division, set out alone to blast a path through a German concertina entanglement that blocked his unit's advance. Ray stuffed blasting caps in his pockets, wrapped primer cord around his body, and grabbed several bangalore torpedoes. He made it to the wire but was severely wounded as he set his charges. Apparently, realizing his wounds would disable him before he could complete his task, Ray connected a bangalore to the caps in his pocket and the primer cord around his body and set off the explosion. Pfc. Francis X. McGraw, Company H. 26th Infantry, 1st Infantry Division, withstood a German artillery barrage and then halted the German ground assault with fire from his heavy machine gun. Running out of ammunition, he hurriedly replenished his stocks and continued firing until he had again exhausted his ammunition. Grabbing a carbine, McGraw continued to engage the advancing Germans until he was finally killed. S. Sgt. John W. Minick, Company I, 121st Infantry, 8th Infantry Division, single-handedly assaulted and neutralized an enemy machine gun. Continuing forward, he encountered a German company and again attacked, killing twenty Germans and capturing twenty more. Minick continued his one-man advance, knocking out another enemy machine gun position. Once more moving ahead of his unit, the young sergeant stepped on one of the many mines planted in the Huertgen and died.

[Jim Baker]

Four examples of Army Medal of Honor citations won by Third and Seventh Army soldiers show the incredible bravery and self-sacrifice American soldiers once more exhibited in the face of the determined German defenses. Pfc. Silvestre S. Herrera, Company E, 142d Infantry, 36th Infantry Division, single-handedly rushed a strongpoint that had stopped his platoon's advance. He took the position and captured eight Germans. As Herrera's platoon resumed its advance it again came under fire. Once more Herrera rushed forward, this time through a minefield, to attack the enemy. He stepped on a mine, severing both of his feet. In spite of his severe wounds, he kept up his accurate rifle fire until his fellow soldiers could take the strongpoint. Two medics, Pvt. William D. McGee, 304th Infantry, 76th Division, and Pfc. Frederick C. Murphy, 259th Infantry, 65th Infantry Division, both died after they knowingly entered minefields to rescue wounded comrades. Capt. Jack L. Treadwell, commander of Company F. 180th Infantry, 45th Infantry Division, was leading his company against the Siegfried Line near Nieder-Wurzbach when it became pinned down by heavy enemy fire. Treadwell went forward alone, armed with his submachine gun and hand grenades. In a determined attack, he knocked out six pillboxes and captured eighteen prisoners. In the wake of Treadwell's one-man offensive, an inspired Company F swept through the remaining German positions and created a breach in the Siegfried Line that opened the way to its battalion's objective.

[coastie]

I just wanted to add a little to this thread by presenting the citation of the only MOH winner I had the honor to know. Herbert was a buddy of my father and he was a very quiet man, didn't talk much about this action.


BURR, HERBERT H. Rank and organization: Staff Sergeant, U.S. Army, Company C, 41st Tank Battalion, 11th Armored Division. Place and date: Near Dorrmoschel, Germany, 19 March 1945. Entered service at: Kansas City, Mo. Birth: St. Joseph, Mo. G.O. No.: 73, 30 August 1945. Citation: He displayed conspicuous gallantry during action when the tank in which he was bow gunner was hit by an enemy rocket, which severely wounded the platoon sergeant and forced the remainder of the crew to abandon the vehicle. Deafened, but otherwise unhurt, S/Sgt. Burr immediately climbed into the driver's seat and continued on the mission of entering the town to reconnoiter road conditions. As he rounded a turn he encountered an 88-mm. antitank gun at pointblank range. Realizing that he had no crew, no one to man the tank's guns, he heroically chose to disregard his personal safety in a direct charge on the German weapon. At considerable speed he headed straight for the loaded gun, which was fully manned by enemy troops who had only to pull the lanyard to send a shell into his vehicle. So unexpected and daring was his assault that he was able to drive his tank completely over the gun, demolishing it and causing its crew to flee in confusion. He then skillfully sideswiped a large truck, overturned it, and wheeling his lumbering vehicle, returned to his company. When medical personnel who had been summoned to treat the wounded sergeant could not locate him, the valiant soldier ran through a hail of sniper fire to direct them to his stricken comrade. The bold, fearless determination of S/Sgt. Burr, his skill and courageous devotion to duty, resulted in the completion of his mission in the face of seemingly impossible odds.

[fknorr]

I am simply amazed when reading CMOH citations...what these guys did to be awarded these things boggles the mind.

I think if 99.9% of us rounded the corner and ran smack into a crewed 88, the first thing we'd do is sh!t our pants...

[paddywhack]

some of the guys who flew in the war did pretty mad stuff to win the VC KC etc!i read of a VC winner who climbed out onto the wing of his lancaster to put out a fire! or of a brit catalina(?) pilot who after getting seroiulsy(?) damged and wounded while sinking a u boat flew for something like 16 hours and saved his crew!!!! but i think the MOH is more like the oaks or sword to be honest!!