Engraved 1939 EK1

[Glenn R]

Recently purchased this. Any views?
Bernhardt Schmidt checks out in 1937 Diensterliste as Standartenfuehrer at Sachsenhausen.

[Glenn R]

Further scan

[Glenn R]

And another

[Glenn R]

Obverse

[Andy Mac]

Hinge Assembly

Hello Glenn,
I think you should look at thread posted by Gordon Williamson a few weeks ago entitled "Shinkel EK1" the hinge assembly looks like the one discussed there. I thought it was a correct hinge assembly, but I was wrong. I checked the EK1 that I have and it's slightly different, it is the same as the one in "The Iron Time" book.
Although the Hinge assembly on your Cross is similar I believe it is fake.

Regards
Andy

[Frank Heukemes]

Dear Glenn,

I have four seperate thoughts:

1) The cross looks a bit suspicious, but I do not have the exact same type of fake in my files.

2) More disturbing and probably supporting 1):
"Kl." should very likely be the abbreviation for Konzentrationslager (Sachsenhausen). For one the correct abbreviation in German would be "KZ" and I am sure Mr. Schmidt was well familiar with that term, and secondly, the regular meaning of the abbreviation "Kl." in German is Kleiner, Kleine, Kleines or klein which makes absolutely no sense in combination with Sachsenhausen. Also, the style of the letters is possible for that era, but not typical.

3) Very unlikely to get the EK1 of that man at a common dealer for a regular EK1 price, completely seperated from other items that would form a "Schmidt group".

4) Mr. Schmidt would not have earned his EK at KZ Sachsenhausen, so why mention it on the back of his EK? This horror was kept among as few men as possible, not exactly something that you would have engraved on your EK.

All of the above considered, I would also bring this one back to the source.

Cheers, Frank H.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Glenn, I have been looking at your EKI. Frank has, as usual, made some very good comments and I would agree with them all. If you check the SS Deinstalterlise, it will tell you if this guy ever won the EKI in the first place? I would be interested to know who sold you this cross?
Cheers, Ade.

[Andy Mac]

Old sharp eye

Well done Frank,
I kept looking at the 'KL' and kept seeing 'KC' (I reckon I need new glasses)

Regards
Andy

[Glenn R]

Thanks to Frank again and everyone else for the replies. The Diensterliste does give the man as receiving the Iron Cross. I've seen this pin plate on Schinkel crosses but not on others.
Food for thought, thanks.

[Kecon]

Hi Glenn

Oddly enough an EK 1 with this strange looking hindge assembly showed up on Manions auction site about a weekago. The cross itself looks very similar to the fake discussed on another thread. (EK 1 class by Tor). Frank did an excellent job in showing various examples of these.

Thats all we need is another fake to watch-out for. Becoming a common occurance these days. I'm sure glad I have this forum to learn from.

Ken

[Tiger 1]

EK I = combat award!

Gentlemen,

The first thing that should spring to mind in such a case is the fact that the EK I is a combat award. If this inscrption was engraved on a KVK I without swords then maybe, just maybe a named only piece would merit further looks. As Munich stated above the reference to the camp engraved on the back of a combat award is suspicious to say the least. Take into account the rest of the problems with the cross itself, it would go back to the seller as soon as possible if I had planned on buying it.

Before I get it handed to me, Yes I know that some EK I's were awarded for merit other than combat. Their numbers were very few though.

Tiger 1

[plack01]

Hello,
im a bit late, but during war time shortcut for "konzentrationslager" was KL, youll find it on the dog tags of the wardens etc. KZ was said by civialians and was kept after the war. About the cross i dont know if its real or not - but from the photo i would keep it - , just wanted to put in my 2 cents because of the "kl" shortcut.

seasons greetings
michael