Spain Cross

[Dennis J]

Over the years collectors have used the designations "Guerilla Warfare badge" and "Anti-Partisan Badge" to describe a Bandenkampfabzeichen. There has never been a problem and no moderator has thought fit to edit the title to APB or BKA.

Now, when a new collector writes a thread entitled "Spanish Cross" the title is changed to "Spain Cross" and BrianS chastises the poor lad for his using an incorrect translation.

All I am asking for is freedom of speech. Let us agree that both terms Spanish Cross and Spain Cross are acceptable on this forum and get on with our collecting.

Stan

I agree that has been going since collecting SC AKA SK so as said lets move on.I guess we have too much time on our hands so we are getting nit- picky.

Dennis J

[Dietrich Maerz]

But here is another flat earth one. You mentioned colloquialisms, German collectors, call, or used to call more often in the past, the 1st type wound badge the "spanisches VW". As an analogy to the SC, they should've called it the "Spanien VW". Notice something? Is it closer now?

Albert, I think this is a bad example. Why? Because you cannot, IMHO, use a wrong denomination, which "Spanisches Verwundetenabzeichen" clearly is on two levels, as proof for the correctness of another wrong translation. It never was "Spanisch" and it also was not only awarded to soldiers wounded in Spain (the historical mistake). To use this already wrong denomination to sanctify an equally wrong translation into English is a double whammy! This VWA was always the 1. Form, or early type.

There are plenty examples in the German language of wrong denominations. Most use "Buntmetall", even in literature that wants to be serious, and now we would need to use "Colored Metal" instead of the correct Tombak? This is another problem in the hobby! The willingness to learn and to correct early mistakes is only present in a very small part of the community, especially in Germany.

[Dietrich Maerz]

I agree that has been going since collecting SC AKA SK so as said lets move on.I guess we have too much time on our hands so we are getting nit- picky. Dennis J

Dennis, it is a good thing that we all have 24 hours/day and we also have the freedom to use that time as we please. I think that this would be a good solution: the members, who are interested in this discussion stay and the ones that don't like it, move on!
I find this far better than to tell everybody to "move on" and stop what two (or maybe even more) members find "nitpicky."

[Albert]

Albert, I think this is a bad example. Why? Because you cannot, IMHO, use a wrong denomination, which "Spanisches Verwundetenabzeichen" clearly is on two levels, as proof for the correctness of another wrong translation. It never was "Spanisch" and it also was not only awarded to soldiers wounded in Spain (the historical mistake). To use this already wrong denomination to sanctify an equally wrong translation into English is a double whammy! This VWA was always the 1. Form, or early type.

There are plenty examples in the German language of wrong denominations. Most use "Buntmetall", even in literature that wants to be serious, and now we would need to use "Colored Metal" instead of the correct Tombak? This is another problem in the hobby! The willingness to learn and to correct early mistakes is only present in a very small part of the community, especially in Germany.

Dietrich, first, let me thank you for explaining your logic behind "Knights". Secondly, for the intended application "colloquialism" and linguistic impact on language, the above example was perfectly fine. Also, it made no attempt at defending the misnomer. As for your last statement, all I can say is "Unkraut vergeht nicht";-) And one little remark, reverse translations are of course one possible check mechanism, but you will certainly agree, not the only one. Esp. with noun to adjective translation and vice versa, i.e. Brandenburger Tor.

Anyway, good discussion, learned why you used "Knights", and was reminded of Lumsden and the soldered on eyelet. I have always been wondering if he at that time knew that the eyelet was part of the frame, but just worded it wrongly, or if he really thought it was soldered on...

[Brian S]

Now, when a new collector writes a thread entitled "Spanish Cross" the title is changed to "Spain Cross" and BrianS chastises the poor lad for his using an incorrect translation.
Stan

What BS.

[Brian S]

As I say too, repeatedly, see above;-)

Brian, your response sounds a little desperate....

OMG, like I lose sleep over this.


You digging to China for analogies sounds a little desperate to me but I am too polite to write that.


You all can call it whatever you please. Just don't tell me I am "wrong" as Stan did.


I'm done with this krap. You start getting personal and if I claw back I get in trouble. Enjoy your Spanish Cross laddies.


Unsubscribing from this nonsense.

[Dennis J]

Dennis, it is a good thing that we all have 24 hours/day and we also have the freedom to use that time as we please. I think that this would be a good solution: the members, who are interested in this discussion stay and the ones that don't like it, move on!
I find this far better than to tell everybody to "move on" and stop what two (or maybe even more) members find "nitpicky."

Sounds good to me I was not telling anybody to do anything they don't want to do.I just don't know what else can be said on this topic so I said move on jmo I am.


Stay Safe
Dennis J

[Brian S]

To the people who think this type of discussion is not worth the time and we should rather move on to another "Is this real?" or "Look what I bought"-thread, my personal answer is this: this type of thread (and there are many to find in all sub-fora) is what distinguishes WAF from most of other fora. It is "something else", it is refreshing, it is intellectually stimulating, and - best of all - nobody needs to read it if it is deemed nonsense or whatever.

...and Amen!

[Thomas Durante]

Now, when a new collector writes a thread entitled "Spanish Cross" the title is changed to "Spain Cross" and BrianS chastises the poor lad for his using an incorrect translation.

All I am asking for is freedom of speech. Let us agree that both terms Spanish Cross and Spain Cross are acceptable on this forum and get on with our collecting.

Stan

That will not stand Stan, I agree the title of the thread should not be changed nor should anyone be chastising members. I think we are in agreement that Spain and Spanish Cross are both acceptable forms to use and we are all certainly in agreement that members should feel comfortable to post any question they have on WAF without fear of being chastised or made fun of. We are all here to learn and discuss our passion, regardless of experience level.

Dietrich, thanks for the explanation on the Knights Cross.

Tom

[Inspector Krogh]

The posts below exhibit clear thought on the subject, and they hold the rational answer.
Everybody has had their say and made their points.
Enough of this discussion. It has become tedious.



Posted by Stan
Now, when a new collector writes a thread entitled "Spanish Cross" the title is changed to "Spain Cross" and BrianS chastises the poor lad for his using an incorrect translation.
All I am asking for is freedom of speech. Let us agree that both terms Spanish Cross and Spain Cross are acceptable on this forum and get on with our collecting.

Posted by Tom
That will not stand Stan, I agree the title of the thread should not be changed nor should anyone be chastising members. I think we are in agreement that Spain and Spanish Cross are both acceptable forms to use and we are all certainly in agreement that members should feel comfortable to post any question they have on WAF without fear of being chastised or made fun of. We are all here to learn and discuss our passion, regardless of experience level.

[Brian S]

Really? What nonsense.



Definition of chastise



transitive verb
1 : to censure severely : castigate The coach chastised the players for their mistakes.

2 : to inflict punishment on (as by whipping)

[Brian S]

Dear Stan,

being pretty good with English and even better with the German language I have to correct you and the "Not true at all" statement. The cross is named in German "Spanienkreuz" which is a combination of two substantives: Spanien and Kreuz. This translates into English as Spain Cross and nothing else. No discussion!

The wrongly assumed term "Spanish Cross" is a combination of an adjective (Spanish) and substantive (Cross). That would translate to "Spanisches Kreuz" which in German would mean it is a cross made in Spain or in the style of Spain, BUT not for Spain!

Now, I fully understand if you want to use the wrong term "Spanish Cross", just as a lot of people here use Kreigsmarine, Liebstandarte (which means in German "Love Standard"), or Spang or just Luft. Fine with me. But don't insist it is correct, it is not!

Stan can't stand being corrected and now trying to make me into a bully on this subject. Wow... That's low Stan even for you.