Q: '11' Maker Marked EK1?

[HeinzGrimberg]

Hi my friends,

I have a question about this EK1.


'11' Maker Marked EK1 is a perfect match with Deumer.


Q1: Is this a mistake on the maker's mark? -> If so, did Deumer use the same '11' markings as Grossmann??
Q2: Is this a post-war product? -> Like L15 marking in F. Orth




*Maker marking*


3 - Deumer PKZ
11- Grossmann PKZ
11- Deumer PKZ(??)

L/11 - Deumer LDO



Best regards,
S.W.

[HeinzGrimberg]

PIC's

[Dietrich Maerz]

It seems that Deumer initially forgot to stamp "L/11" but rather stamped "11". Has nothing to do with Grossmann.

L 15 is a completely legitimate stamp by F. Orth. They forgot initially the "/".

[Rich G]

L 15 is a completely legitimate stamp by F. Orth. They forgot initially the "/".

Dietrich


Maybe I missed something but L/15 was not for Orth, rather just pkz number '15'. L/15 was for Otto Schickle.



So are there legitimate Orth marked crosses with marking 'L15' as opposed to '15'?


Rich

[Dietrich Maerz]

Yes, you missed it! And yes, there are,
L 15 was the first series of stamping by Orth.

(Did you really think I would mix up L/15 and L 15 after 20 years studying the topic?)

[Rich G]

Actually i did not think you would make such a mistake, Dietrich, hence why I was obviously missing something.


So Orth started to stamp incorrectly with L15 then realised it should have been 15?


Crosses like marked L15 like this one are perfectly original (and early) pieces?


Rich

[Tony T-S]

As long as it's not a Floch, also marked L15. Gets confusing.

[Dietrich Maerz]

So Orth started to stamp incorrectly with L15 then realised it should have been 15?

Yes

Crosses like marked L15 like this one are perfectly original (and early) pieces?

No, only the ones that can be clearly attributed to Orth, like the KVK 1. Class and the East Medal. They stored the pins and they were used after the war.

Dietrich

[Rich G]

So you are saying all L15 EK1s are post war assembled or it is not known?


Rich

[boch_62]

It seemed to me that all EK1-1939, signed L15 (without /) were always rated as post-war = Floch's, Austrian's or unknown makers ... is a commonly known truth.

Is there anything new in this topic?

Regards
Jarek

[Dietrich Maerz]

Gentlemen, this was about Orth. I did not mention any EK1, you did. I said “ only if attributable to Orth.” The use of the original L 15 Orth- made pins for post-war fakes is a different matter and has been discussed in depth in George’s and my book about the EK1.