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    #16
    Hi Norm,

    I had forgotten I even still have this "fake" packet until I saw the '15 thread revisited. Thank you for the thorough analysis as always. I am amazed to read the knowledge within your posts! Thanks for you time and effort to improve everyone's knowledge and enjoyment of the WAF.

    Best,

    Jeff

    Comment

      #17
      Hi Jeff,

      It's my pleasure, of course. Always fun to analyze such things.

      Originally posted by Norm F View Post
      Included there is a "Frank & Reif" Ost Medal packet with a different font from Jeff's Ost Medal in the opening post, but interestingly the font on Jeff's does match the font on the "Frank & Reif" EK2 Spange packet from the same series. Thus Jeff's example is an interesting hybrid between those first two in the compilation.
      It occurs to me now that your blue "Ostmedaille" envelope actually combines features of the first three packets in that compilation:
      1. The text for the "Frank & Reif" Ostmedaille
      2. The font type of the "Frank & Reif" EK2 Spange
      3. The blue ink of the "Wernstein" EK2

      all of which are printed on the same type of blue packet with black splotches and shallow top flap. They sure liked to shake things up with the print variations back in the day.

      Best regards,
      ---Norm
      Attached Files

      Comment

        #18
        Hi Norm,

        It amazes me someone went to so much trouble "back in the day" to create a fake packet which had relatively little value at that time. The packets for the EK/badges, I can somewhat understand, but for an Ost Medal, not exactly hauling a hoard of cash to the bank!

        I wonder if my "hybrid" has become more valuable???

        Best,

        Jeff

        Comment

          #19
          Hi Jeff,

          Unfortunately, the 1970s was a heyday for elaborate fakes of all kinds, including the sophisticated production of common badges and their packaging. Forgers could practice their craft with relative impunity due to the lack of internet and reference material combined with the lay-popularity of TR items; a semblance of "variety" adds to the effectiveness of a scam. Heck, even now Staegemeir and his ilk get away with it despite a better informed collecting community, so back then it was a cake walk.

          I'm not saying that fact proves your packet is a fake, only that the elaborate variety presented here does nothing to support authenticity. What's presented in this thread is the inter-relationships linking a variety of packets, some of which are obviously fake so that the others are then implicated by association.

          But I agree, it all falls just short of torching your packet just yet. I think the likelihood of authenticity is very low but I can't say it's zero.

          Best regards,
          ---Norm

          Comment

            #20
            I guess it doesn't help that this type of Ostmedaille packet is the same type as yours aside from the different printing, has been posted in the past with different types of unmarked or other maker marked Ost medals and is a different form factor from other Ost medal packets?

            This example actually came from "Snyder's Treasures" which is, in itself, a bad sign.
            Attached Files

            Comment

              #21
              Great work Norm🖒

              Comment

                #22
                This likely shows the type of badge that was initially packaged with the "Schwerin" blue envelopes of this construction. I don't know what year these were made but this type of fake U-Boat badge turns up in old collections and auctions, consistent with the 1970's time frame.
                Attached Files

                Comment

                  #23
                  Furthermore, here's another "Frank & Reif" packet with fake L/12 Spange like the one in post #13. It's apparent from past threads that these sets appeared a few decades back when it was a common misconception that Frank & Reif's LDO number was L/12 (when in fact Juncker was L/12), and were available from "Globe Militaria" in the 1970s-80s. So these were sets meant to deceive from that era.

                  Thus the evidence is pretty solid for the "F&R" Spange and "Schwerin" U-Boat packets of this type being fake. As mentioned, the other variants thus tend to be guilty by association.

                  Best regards,
                  ---Norm
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by Norm F; 04-04-2017, 09:16 PM.

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Adding to the litany, the "Josef Feix" blue packets of this type appeared with fake "Floch-type" EK2s marked "49" in the ring, also from the same era.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                      #25
                      The "Frank & Reif" Ostmedaille blue packet like the one from Snyder's Treasures is harder to pin down but there was one posting of the blue packet which was purchased in the early 1990s that came with an unmarked Ostmedaille of steel (attracted to magnet). Another set of the same type was spotted on Weitze. Unfortunately the images are lost from the thread but it included a lively discussion as to whether a steel Ostmedaille could be legitimate -- with no resolution. I can find no other postings of a steel Ostmedaille so it seems to have been a limited run.

                      Best regards,
                      ---Norm

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Found another posting of an Ostmedaille blue envelope like Jeff's at the top of the thread.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                          #27
                          Two observations regarding the "Wernstein" EK2 blue packets of this type:

                          1) They show up with a variety of crosses in them, some real and some fake.

                          2) Several "Floch-type" fake crosses with "5" marks in the ring (Wernstein's PK number) and also genuine leftover frames and cores with spurious post-war "5" marks have been reported on the forums over the years. The business enterprise that supplied Floch was known to use combinations of wartime and post-war production with various fake marks so this isn't surprising, and that same enterprise is implicated in the "Frank & Reif" EK2 Spange, "Josef Feix" EK2 and "Schwerin" U-Boat blue packet sets.

                          It's not much of a stretch to presume the "Wernstein" EK2 packets are from the same source.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Here's a variation on the "Panzervernichtungs-Abzeichen" packet from the first compilation, the one with the font type that matches the "Schwerin" U-Boat packet. This time it adds the designation "in Silber", and instead of the maker stamp "Frank Mänert" (a misspelling of "Franz" by the way), just has an "L.D.O." stamp on the reverse. It has a nice obligingly fake look to it.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Norm F View Post
                              This likely shows the type of badge that was initially packaged with the "Schwerin" blue envelopes of this construction.
                              Another example. Clearly this fake badge/packet combo was no coincidence.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

                                #30
                                Interesting to see the same folded brown paper insert on these two.
                                Attached Files

                                Comment

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