Spange packet, opinions please

[kokstok]

Open for all opinions

[Destruction]

Hi René,
So you was the one who got it...ok..not sure about this one , to be honest. Can you show a close up pictures of designation and MM?

[Thomas H]

Hi René,

100% fake in my opinion

Regards, Thomas

[kokstok]

Hi René,

100% fake in my opinion

Regards, Thomas

And why if I may ask?

[Thomas H]

of course you may René

I don't like the MM, it looks like a potato stamp, seen this before on fakes. The "1939" isn't round and I don't see any reason why a pre '45 packet would have such a back design. The printing on the front isn't the best either, but you could say that this is due to late war printing, like the westwall.

all in all I don't like this packet. I will see if I have another example.

Groet, Thomas

ps. I you have this packet, than I guess your opinion is positive. Could you tell use why you think it is good.

[CMSgt]

Packets

Rene,

Here are 3 of my Ziemer & Sohn's packets. The stamp appears to be the same as yours. What is the size of the packet? Jim

[schönbeck]

saying something is a fake due to a lot of ink or very little ink, is not a good way.
If you add a lot of ink the stamp will start floating and get blurry.
That means nothing regarding to the autenthcy.

[Destruction]

saying something is a fake due to a lot of ink or very little ink, is not a good way.
If you add a lot of ink the stamp will start floating and get blurry.
That means nothing regarding to the autenthcy.

Hmmmm...I'm curious what are your criteriums then while detecting fakes?
This one makes me nervious because of the same reasons like Thomas.
Also, Ziemer had at least 2 more spange packet designs, one of them is the same type but looks much more classic,accurate and believable...
Still want to see bigger scans though
René, what are your thoughts on this?

[Allan P.]

I'm sure we have discussed this type of packet before.

I have a number of these in my collection, each containing an original spange, for what thats worth!!

Opinion is divided on these, they do look very new, but that's no reason for them to be dismissed immediately.

I must admit I can't make my mind up, but I lean towards them being OK at the moment.

I'm not 100% happy with the paper, no 'flecks' in it which we are used to seeing.

The print I can't make my mind up about, that's easily reproduced anyway.

But as I said above, at the moment, I will be hanging onto mine.

Allan

[schönbeck]

I have worked at a print factory and my father still does(for 30 years).

When you start up a new production there will be several pieces that will be discarded. It's up to the printer to approve when they are good enough.

Like any tool they will eventually be worn out and needs to be replaced.

Printing a makers mark can be done in a couple of ways.
First would be a complete, with the square box and name inside or each letter by one by one.
I suspect that for example the Schraubenhause/Schraubenhansen is the later, here they probably put the u upside down turning it to a n.

[kokstok]

Hello Guys thanks for all the input, and I will try to answer all the question.

@Serg, I will make some close ups but I have to make the pictures with natural light.

@ Thomas, Because I own it doesn't make it original, but I can tell you what I do like about it. First the paper itself, I don't see any problem with that also the folding is correct. Yes the printing looks sloppy but that is (for me) no problem, just remember all those war merrit medal packets they have the same problem. What I find curious is the size. ( 4.8 x 9.0 )

@ Jim, the size is small, 4.8 x 9.0

Some more threads concerning these packets:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=ziemer

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=ziemer

[CMSgt]

Size

Rene, it is the same size as mine. Jim

[Tom Yanacek]

I have worked at a print factory and my father still does(for 30 years).

When you start up a new production there will be several pieces that will be discarded. It's up to the printer to approve when they are good enough.

Like any tool they will eventually be worn out and needs to be replaced.

Printing a makers mark can be done in a couple of ways.
First would be a complete, with the square box and name inside or each letter by one by one.
I suspect that for example the Schraubenhause/Schraubenhansen is the later, here they probably put the u upside down turning it to a n.

What a great picture and it sure brings back memories. That is really setting type the old-fashioned way. I remember setting type this same way when I was taking printing classes in 7th grade of junior high school.

Best regards,
Tom

[Tom Yanacek]

Hello guys,

Here is a Ziemer & Söhne EK2 Spange packet from my collection. I have no issues with this type of packet and believe it to be completely genuine. As far as the other ones posted in this thread are concerned, I am a bit leery. The paper, the print, the positioning of the print, and the size all seem a bit odd. Then again, I agree that none of these things are necessarily disqualifying. For all I know, these could be legitimate.

Best regards,
Tom

(I've tried to show the packet below in its actual size, which is 105mm X 58mm.)

[Tom Yanacek]

front designation: