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**Chrvip68** · 08-02-2006, 01:59 PM

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**MH184** · 08-03-2006, 02:15 AM

Hi Chris,

Good to see you back around again. This packet, it's similar to the scrawl fake designation but is not the 'traditional' form of scrawl fake designation.

I'll check a few things before I comment on the designation further.

The maker mark, I'm not to keen on this guise to be honest nor do I really like the look of the paper, this does ring bells as to the new or more new fakes that are around and like that of the scrawl fake paper (as far as I can tell from a pic)

I'd like to check a couple of things first but I'll come back to this thread Chris.

Kr

Marcus

**MH184** · 08-03-2006, 03:24 AM

The only genuine desigantion style of text I thought this could relate to was this type on this orange EK2 packet.

It dosen't match, look at the individual, e, n, u, z and r I've pointed out with colours. The e and z don't match exactly. This is important ! I've studied desigantions of all types and found relationships of the type's and have discovered there are several patterns used only, there are less convetional designations, Carl Wild packets are a rule unto themselves and the other odd maker marked packets with set types too. They are few and far between and not the norm, so we can catgorise desigantions, or I'm in the process of rather.

No match for this set type.

However if you go to the next post.

Attached Files

Brunozzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.JPG (35.6 KB, 76 views)

**MH184** · 08-03-2006, 03:50 AM

Again though not an exact match, but theres an exception to every rule and this exists mostly in fakes as they improve and basically evolve.

I think I've been wrong in the past vouching for the PAB packet below and consider it fake now (I'm no expert and I'm learning every day, it's a lone venture and I don't have the aid of other collectors like in the badges forums, so the onus is on me

and I'm sorry if I've gave you wrong impressions of such packets in the past)

I would consider more perhaps Chris your packet is fake and belongs to this family of fake designation types, I beleive the PAB packet is fake and your WB paket is perhaps a more recent made version.......esp with that paper type (I think) as I've seen it on numerous fakes to date.

Like I say not an exact match (e and z are close but not trace perfect), but fakes do tend to change slightly for some reason ???? The size's in the pic should not be considered (not sized properly) and it's just a comparison of lettering.

I think it could well be a fake, but I can't say yours is for 101% certainty......just my opinion. I'd need it in hand really to be positive.

Attached Files

Bruno 1994.jpg (22.4 KB, 76 views)

**Chrvip68** · 08-03-2006, 01:54 PM

Hello dear Marcus,

Thanks for your depth analysis, but i admit i was excpecting that you will not happy with this bag.

I would like to send it to you for your personal inspection and if you want that please send me a PM with the details for the shipping.

I'm curious because if the bag turns indeed fake then also the WB who was in the set it's probably a high quality fake too and i say this because i have some concerns about the WB too.

In the end all will benefit for this and we will know what we encounter in the future...

**Porsche** · 08-04-2006, 10:27 AM

Chris,
I've attached some lettering styles from some of my packets which seem to me to be the same style as these so called 'Scrawl fakes'. You can see that these packets do not match each other, or the Orange EK2 packet, exactly. Of course, it could be that these too are fakes, but I seriously doubt it. Personally I think that using the lettering as an authenticator is somewhat limited, despite any regulations, the final print will be open to some interpretation by the manufacturer -Even if they come from a common source, they weren't made from common computer programmes on NC machines. My vote is that your example is OK.

Attached Files

891 KVK Pkt_Mm.jpg (38.1 KB, 66 views)

**Porsche** · 08-04-2006, 10:28 AM

and an EK2 packet.......

Attached Files

815 EK2 Packet_Mm.jpg (30.6 KB, 65 views)

**Thomas H** · 08-04-2006, 12:41 PM

Hi Porsche,

Your KVK packet is a good one. Your EKII packet is a well known 101% fake packet.

Hi Chris/Marcus,

I didn't reply one this thread earlier because I first wanted to know what Marcus thinks of it. My first thought was that there is something with the makers mark that I don't like, another point also outlined by Marcus is the paper used in this packet.

Chris could you also post pictures of your WB packet.

I have seen this maker mark before, I will look it up and get back to you guys.

Greetings, Thomas

**Porsche** · 08-04-2006, 03:45 PM

Thomas,
OOops, sorry. Posted wrong pic. You're absolutely right, I posted a pic of a known fake that I've got -Well spotted!! That's my credibility up in smoke! What I should have posted (I hope) is attached.

Attached Files

813 EK2 Packet_Mm.jpg (81.4 KB, 59 views)

**Thomas H** · 08-04-2006, 04:36 PM

Hi Neil,

That EKII packet is the real deal

Everybody makes misstakes, so don't worry about your credibility

Greetings, Thomas

**Porsche** · 08-04-2006, 04:56 PM

Thomas,
British vet pick-up, unissued and came complete with cross, ribbon and tissue paper.

**MH184** · 08-05-2006, 12:28 PM

Neil,

Quote:

''Personally I think that using the lettering as an authenticator is somewhat limited''

On contary, you have patterns and characteriitic's with certain typefaces and then even makers to a lesser degree. It's one way to tell several versions of fakes and the difference between them.

Even with a multitude of consideration's as you intimate, you can catagorise desigantions and typeface etc etc It's within this remit of attained and tested profiles of such I work on.

It's one method in a combination of things, sometimes it can be difficult to assess more so than with just a pic so you adapt to what you have there and then.

It work's/help's and is always somethig to consider in deliberation. Of course in hand, the gauge, weight, construction, fold cuts, ink under magnification and paper etc etc are other fundamnetal things to observe. but it also depends what type of fake you have, the near perfect Ldo packet, the paper there is the biggest give away......and so on.

There are others things too, even the ultimate which is ink and paper date testing, this is costly but opinions are sometimes fragile and science can prevail over certian blocks in our studies.

But lettering observations is a tool whether it be a Luft case, paper packet or cellophane and cardboard carton and it's really not as provincial as it appears. Search for threads of the 26 outer carton, you'll see that the lettering is the most effective recogntion guide there.

Smell, feel, black light it came from etc etc It's these notions I'd say were less than limited.

I dont want to teach you to suck egg's, but perhaps if I present you with some thoughts and fake comparison's in the near future it will better aid you and you'll see what I'm on about.

Kr

Marcus

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