L/127 Silver Wound Packet

[Porsche]

Guys,
picked this up from a reliable source. Has anyone got a badge to match? Who made L/127?

[Porsche]

And the front.......

[Thomas H]

Hi Porsche,

I'm sorry, but the packet is a fake. The lettering used for this packet isn't period.

Greetings, Thomas

[MH184]

It is fake indeed, a scrawl fake as I call them the most common form of lettering in fakes we get now, not the best form of fakes but they have tricked many !!! There are fakes that dupiicate original designations exactly so it's not just the designation and lettering forms we observe, but in this instance there's no need to look any further.

What Thomas correctly means is that this style of lettering is no match to any original packet even, it's a fake conception style of lettering in a style of fraktur (gothic).

There is one form very similar, but no exact match and is to date only ever found on one variation of a generic EK2 packet.

L/127 !!!!!! Blimey, that dosen't even exist on records that we are aware of, the LDO numbers proceed from L/10 up to L/66.

Liefrant number wise the sole digits of 127 would be, Moritz Hausch AG of Pforzheim.

So again even if not conversant on packets and their traits this would make you dubious !

It's crap mate.

Kr

Marcus

[Porsche]

Marcus, Thomas,
thanks for your replies. I'm not convinced that it's a fake because
i) my source is pretty reliable
ii) it 'feels' right and
iii) why would a faker use a maker that's going to raise controversy

-but I accept your comments.

More importantly, please enlighten me on your comments r/e LDO and Liefrant numbers. I know that most LDO lists only go up to 66, but I understood that LDO numbers as high as L130 are known from a steinhauer and luck list, and more recently numbers up to L135 have been identified. I've seen L/127 listed in book's as the maker moritz hausch A.G. of pforzheim (as Marcus's reply). I can't remember the reference I'm thinking of, but I believe that the list in Angolia's book also includes this number.

[Thomas H]

Hi Porsche,

i) my source is pretty reliable

I don't know your source, but I don't think that he/she makes a fake packet real. I don't want to offend you but I have also bought from reliable dealers or reliable non-dealers and they are reliable till you contact them that something is fake.

Do we also know this reliable source in other words is it a know dealer?

ii) it 'feels' right

yes, but it looks wrong . Without joking, the paper looks fake to me, I don't know what your standard is for feeling good?

iii) why would a faker use a maker that's going to raise controversy

In Third Reich Militaria nothing is logical. I think that most of the collectors in this hobby have 1,2....10 things that are just not what we call normal, but are still 100% good.

In this case someone has made a packet that looks good so one group will buy it. another group will say it looks not "normal", but we don't know the maker so it could be a variant. the last group will not buy it because of bad feeling and knowledge in this field.

I will look for LDO and liefrant numbers for you.

I don't know if you are new to this hobby, but in the begining we all bought some bad stuff from nice people that turned out the be also bad. The EKII packet you showed in the thread started by Chris is a well know fake. If the source is the same as this packet, you should find another source.

Greetings, Thomas

ps. what does blacklight do with your packets? The EKII packet will shine, but I don't know what will happen with the other packets you have.

[Allan P.]

I agree with Thomas and Marcus, a packet which is regarded as fake.

And a classic mistake that we have all made, "I bought it form a reliable source, so it must be OK"

Allan

[Porsche]

Thomas,
hi again, my 'source' is a well known (in the UK) dealer that I've known for years. He often gives me second opinions on stuff that I have doubts about. He can be caught (like all of us), but I put a lot of faith in his judgement. He gets most of his stuff from vet's in Germany making regular visits to Germany having built up strong relationships with contacts over there over the last 30 years.
I take your point about the paper, it doesn't have the same 'speckled' appearance that are on most of my other packets. However, I'm not yet convinced that that's a reason to dismiss it. The reason I posted it was to find out about the maker.
I'm not new to the game, and yes I have been caught out more than once! I've been collecting on and off since the early eighties, but that doesn't make me any wiser than the next man, the fake's are getting better and better. I've only been concentrating on medals and their packing in an effort to cut down on the space that uniforms, weapons and equipment take up.
None of my packets glow with Black light, except (I think), the fake EK2 posted previously.
Cheers,

Neil

[Thomas H]

Hi Neil,

I couldn't find anything in my books or on the Internet about maker L/127

I also don't know of any real packet that is maker marked with the Ldo or Liefrant number.

What you tell me is that your source knows the field he is working in and that you are having more then just a dealer/buyer relationship. I then don't think he sold you this knowing it's a fake (I still say that's a fake).

I can only tell you what I think and maybe it will help you to make a opinion about this packet. We are all here to learn and help members with there hobby

Regards, Thomas

[Porsche]

What about this link
http://www.derfreiwillige.com/collectorinfo.cfm

This shows the L/127 maker, and 'Liefrant', literaly translated is 'Supplier' number (I thought it was more complicated than that!!!!!)
Cheers,

Neil

[MH184]

Neil,


What other books do you own, check out the Ldo number list from 10 to 66 and you'll see they don't match for a start.

What Col. Angolia has represented there is the Lieferant numbers, NO Ldo numbers at all.

For example 2, for Juncker is a Lieferant number an official goverment contractor number i.e purveyor or as you say supplier number, it is these we know of that indeed climax into the three digits.

Junckers L/12, Ldo number is a contractor/manufacturer number allocated for those firms authorised to manufacture awards for private sale through outlets, jewellers etc. As I say the L numbers are from 10 to 66 with the preffix if the L preffix is devoid if they plain Liefrant numbers.

The L stands for Ldo and this seperate number and L preffix are to denote those for retail sale opposed those of supply to the goverment on official contract with no L preffix i.e 2 for Juncker.

Lets say for arguments sake, okay we don't know all Liefrant or Ldo numbers, so we'd have an unheard of L/127 then which if you look at he other Ldo numbers chronologically would bear no relation to Hausch in any case; so you'd have an unknown number and no maker to attribute it too.

Right the packet.

Forget black lighting, you won't find any such paper like this glowing nor will you on the fake EK2 packet, the odd fleck maybe but you do on these coarse 'wood chip' packets if genuine anyway.


This is one the scrawl fakes as you show. And it is not an emulation of a genuine style in this exact form.

[Porsche]

Marcus,
thanks, this makes the LDO/Lieferant numbers clearer, I was not aware of a difference between the two. I'll take this on board such that I'm a wiser buyer.

Cheers,

Neil