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    #1

    KC packet opinions please !!!

    Hi,

    somebody has offered this packet to me. What are the opinions ? Could this be a good one or is it a fake ? The owner give three weeks money-back.

    Regards,
    dirklein
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    #2
    Here the other side. I have some bigger pictures if somebody needs them.
    Attached Files

    Comment

      #3
      This one is a reproduction in my opinion, some collectors with years of experience do not believe in these specific style of Juncker outer cartons full stop.

      I do believe this 'open ended version' did exist, of the purported genuine examples the example above does not pertain to the 'criteria' as such associated with such believed purported genuine examples.

      The way to spot this version you have, among other ideals of comparison (discussed in a thread on the cases and packets forum) is for one simple observation the J in Juncker, yours has the 'dropped down J' synonymous with known and recognised modern fakes.

      Those that are purported as genuine do not have this dropped down J along with other numerous differences, like the shape and size of the tabs either box end etc etc etc.

      Cut a long story short, this one to me is a fake certainly in any event.

      Take a look on the packets and cases forum, you'll see mine on there and on page 285 of Gordon Williamsons, The Iron Cross of 1939 by Bender Books, I think thats Pieter Verbruggens ?

      Kr

      Marcus

      Comment

        #4
        The dropped J theory/recognition attribute only should and only does it pertain to this EXACT style of outer carton, NO other Juncker carton should be considered in comparison.

        It is not a trait of a fake per se on all Juncker packageing.

        Comment

          #5
          hello marcus

          when i look at the printing it looks that the one from dirk have bigger printing.
          look at the s in kreuzes.
          but can that be the use of the printing machine how newer the printing how smaller the letters ?
          ore are there more printers of these packets ?
          when let's say this is a originel.

          regards johan

          Comment

            #6
            Oh sure, say in theory two printers/paper works in the Berlin remit made these for arguments sake, there would more than likely be differences, the same printer even with a first run to end run, there would be differences etc perhaps and we can see traits of such like on many packets etc etc

            True to say there could have been differences in style of packets aslo, construction, materials to an extent and so on with the same designation.....a multiple of variations and differences is all possible in the broad scheme of things certainly.

            Note also the space between Eisern and Kreuzes.

            This one above though is as sold buy at one time Ost Front (I think thats their name) and another reenactor supplier and reproduction seller which I can't recall just right now.

            There are two (that I'm aware of fully as fakes) types in this fake, an older version (say perhaps early 90's and a more recent made lesser quality production) The rounded corners on the tabs, angle on the inner tabs and size all prescribe to the fake. The difference in the fakes mainly boils down to the cardboard used. If i recall, there maybe variation in the desigantion too ?

            Now, my version as I've mentioned is not liked by one or two trusted and qualified collectors, but as much as I respect their years in collecting and knowledge, I would inclined to contend their opinion at this moment in time as to the very existance of this carton in the first place.

            What ever the deliberation and thoughts on these, Dirks is a modern reproduction I can only be confident in that. Or rather I should say, I'm confident in my opinion that........

            Kr

            Marcus

            Comment

              #7
              -

              IMO:

              Comment

                #8
                Problem is that there are so few original cartons about to make a good comparison.

                Allan
                Looking for information on RKT KARL HUBER
                Stoßtruppführer AufKlAbt 20 (mot.)

                'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it'

                Comment

                  #9
                  I don't know Allan, all we need is one really to compare against the known fakes, and we do know the fakes, the 'premise' fakes that is. All the fakes of this apparent carton do carry the same flaws though and unequivocal traits, compared to what is deemed as original.

                  What I'd like to see though are sets, case and carton, like you do with the 'shoe box' sorts every once in a while. Funny how the odd 'genuine' carton always seems to surface alone in these sorts. I'd like Pieter Verbruggen to contribute to this thread as I beleive the one in Gordons book is his, I'd like to get some background on it at least his, as his carton is like mine.


                  What I can vouch for though, is that Dirks is a fake

                  Comment

                    #10
                    I agree with you totally Marcus

                    Allan
                    Looking for information on RKT KARL HUBER
                    Stoßtruppführer AufKlAbt 20 (mot.)

                    'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it'

                    Comment

                      #11
                      An original cardboard outer carton for the Juncker RK sold on the e-stand a few months ago.....perhaps the buyer would like to post some pics for reference.......

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Which type Harry, you've several the shoe box Juncker has the the dropped J, and thats okay for that example and the desiagntion is different. These type as above (which is a fake version) are so I'm told deemed as latter cardboard cartons.

                        Was it of the exact style of the 'fake' (pretense of as such) pictured above.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Marcus, it was of the shoebox type with a separate lid and base.....

                          Comment

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