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**Tim O'Keefe** · 07-08-2015, 10:59 PM

Its a fine original, when it was sewn onto the tunic is anybody's guess

**PaulW** · 07-09-2015, 12:15 AM

Thanks

Hi Tim,
many thanks for the feedback! It's hand-sewn on, which I have no problem with, but as you say it's difficult to be certain as to whether any cuff-band is wartime applied without concrete providence.

Best regards, Paul

**Mark Gibson** · 07-09-2015, 12:29 AM

Paul,

unless this is a walking out tunic that the airman barely wore I would expect to see wear on tbe inside of the sleeve where the cufftitle rubbed against the body of the tunic. Lack of any wear would make me believe it to be a more recent addition.

Mark

**PaulW** · 07-09-2015, 05:31 AM

Hi Mark, appreciate the feedback. To be fair the tunic is clearly described by the seller as being:-

"with a minimum of wear and in mostly excellent condition, sleeve undersides show a bit of wear"

It has also had collar piping added (the tunic is 1942 vintage I would say from looking at the lining, factory applied piping was dropped in 1940) so I think it is more likely a walking out 'best' blouse than a combat blouse.

I've added a picture of the whole fliegerbluse, and there are more pictures here:-

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=811514

Regards, Paul

Attached Files

FB 1 60.jpg (104.2 KB, 340 views)

**Antonio Scapini** · 07-09-2015, 09:08 AM

I don't know if tunic is full original, however for what is Worth I like it.

The Afrika CT is definitely a good and very nice one, and the hand sewn is well made.

**PaulW** · 07-09-2015, 07:51 PM

Thanks Antonio,
I've had feedback from Bill Petz and George Petersen, both of whom have seen vast numbers of wartime Hermann Goring photographs and both recall seeing examples of HG troops wearing the Afrika cuff-band, but the instances are very rare. Again, without providence it's impossible to say, but at least it is plausible!

BTW - I have your Soldbuch/ Wehrpass book Antonio, great read!

Regards, Paul

**Tim O'Keefe** · 07-10-2015, 03:46 AM

Hi Paul

The HG Div did wear the Afrika ct in Sicily, there are several photos that confirm this. Hauptmann Sandrock is seen wearing a LW tropical tunic with both the GD & Afrika ct's attached in Sicily in '43.

Nice tunic, but am not convinced that the ct's were there during the war.

with regards
Tim

**PaulW** · 07-10-2015, 12:25 PM

Hi Tim, thanks for the information, very interesting!

Best regards, Paul

**PaulW** · 07-31-2015, 05:01 PM

Hi, just a small 'addendum' to this thread (not related to this particular example, just to the subject of HG troops wearing the "Afrika" band). A (paperwork) sales thread currently on the E-Stand for a Luftwaffe (Flak) soldier with service in Africa from 18-4-42 to 22-4-43.

Link:-

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=814589

"estate of a Africa Veteran and member of the Fallschirmflak Regiment Herrmann Göring.

He first served with Flakregiment 43 in Africa. This unit saw action against the 8th British Army. On January 15th the I./Flakregiment 43 destroyed 35 Tanks and 1 Airplane. After defeat in Africa he joined the II.Flakregiment Hermann Göring and later Fallschirmflak Regiment Hermann Göring.
Here he saw action in Italy (Sicily and Monte Cassino) and in Eastern Prussia.

Awards: German-Italian Remembrance Medail, EK2, Wound Badge in Black, Cufftitle Afrika, Drivers´Badge in Gold. The awards are entered in the Soldbuch and the Wehrpass."

Wounded on 6-4-43 (looking at the documents), presumably flown out 22-4-43. On 30-5-43 he was transferred from Luftwaffe Flak Regt 43 into the HG and was entitled to wear the "Afrika" band.

Note the 'security' picture added to the Soldbuch in 1944 shows him complying with the Jan 1944 HG regulation to remove the white collar patches when serving in the field (though not in training establishments etc).

I have asked the owner of the group for permission to copy some of the pictures (for WAF reference use only) so that they are not lost when the sales thread is deleted.

Regards, Paul

**Willi Z.** · 08-02-2015, 10:46 AM

Here is a photo of a HG offcier in a tropical tunic with both. I just saw this thread in both locations so I am going to digest it some more before I comment on the uniform and cufftitles.

Attached Files

HG8 - Copy.jpg (94.8 KB, 213 views)

**Willi Z.** · 08-02-2015, 11:14 AM

Paul, I agree the cufftitles are both original and the Fliegerbluse is as well.

The question to me is when the cufftitles were sewn on. I see some collar wear on the uniform so I would expect to see some more wear on the inside sleeve area where the cufftitles are sewn together. That area wears very quickly. Could I see both inside views side by side?

**PaulW** · 08-02-2015, 06:41 PM

Hi Willi, just to say I will try and do that, tomorrow hopefully.

Regards, Paul

**PaulW** · 08-03-2015, 06:23 AM

Hi Willi,
I've taken some more pictures of the inside of the bands. The nap looks more disturbed on the inside (than the outer sleeve) to me. The Afrika band projects up slightly at the join, and also where some excess band has been folded under. It seems more worn there, whereas the back of the HG band is sewn flat and has a more even wear on the nap.

I have some extensive pictures of the interior sewing of the bands on this thread (on page 2) :-

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=811514

They are applied identically, machine-sewn at the front, about the last third (total length) is hand finished at the back. The machine sewn thread inside the sleeve looks identical to me in terms of type and age when compared to the thread used in the construction of the blouse.

Regards, Paul

Attached Files

**PaulW** · 08-03-2015, 06:29 AM

2

Two more pictures, I'm not sure if they are showing the wear that I can see when examining them in hand that well. I need a better camera btw!

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Afrika cuff band on sleeve opinion

Afrika cuff band on sleeve opinion

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