KM or '57 Reunion, or fake Afrika ct's

[90th Light]

Hi Chris

There is possible photographic evidence of the red/brown version in the KM photo from Gordon posted earlier ? I can't make that call from the single photo, it looks like the standard version to me but i could be wrong on this...the actual ct does appear worn and used. Other than that there is no other photographic evidence so far ?

Tim

Let see what the KM badge guys like Norm F know or have seen Tim;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=1#post6978847

Could add a bit more to the mix,

Chris

[Antonio Scapini]

Chris, really can't understand how we can believe to words like "it seems to me to remember that..."
Furthermore I showed you 3 different CT all made in the same way, and all postwar. 2 of them perfectly match with those posted from Tim. If you know the cufftitle's world you should know what to look for and you'll have no doubt in dismiss all them.
There are no photographic evidences, nor a vet acquired piece of this pattern, and the reason is simple: they are all postwar.

Your friend probably remember a CT that is quite impossible to find, different from all the known AFRIKA CT in embroidery and fabric and never posted here. But the CT I'm speaking about is still no 100% proven to be wartime. We still need a definitive unquestionable evidence I'm looking for.

Last point: I have a picture of the KM officer with the CT posted from Tim, he is wearin a standard Afrika CT. If you look at the palm you will see it is a standard one, not the palm we all see in these postwar copies.

I think we should study what are the "border line" pieces, not those who are well known as to be postwar.

Hope this can definitive close this discussion.

[90th Light]

Could be Antonio,

However, we know that the ones from "Luckenwalde" (Stalag IIIA) are very close to the first one shown by Tim and the other examples you have shown as postwar. The real variation type has to be out there some where because Luckenwalde would not have been the only place in the Third Reich to have them in stores in May 1945. I wonder if someone does not realise what they have thinking it bad ?

Do we known who, where, when made the repro examples which appear to be woven on to a cotton duck type backing ?

Chris

[Antonio Scapini]

1) Where are the pictures of the Luckenwalde find? Until there are no pictures our discussion is completely useless. And if I don't see someting interesting, then I don't believe to a single word.

2) there is a pattern never showed here as I wrote before, different from all the other types. But even if it is extremely rare we can't say it is wartime until we have an unquestionable evidence.

Do we known who, where, when made the repro examples which appear to be woven on to a cotton duck type backing ?

Chris

3) Do you know where, when and from who, are made all the fakes of the TR militaria? No. And we don't need to know it. It would be absurd and absolutely useless. We have to search solid proofs to demonstrate why a piece is wartime, not why it is not.

[90th Light]

Some of the badges from "Luckenwalde" (Stalag IIIA) 1

Chris

[90th Light]

Some of the badges from "Luckenwalde" (Stalag IIIA) 2

Chris

[90th Light]

Some of the badges from "Luckenwalde" (Stalag IIIA) 3

Chris

[90th Light]

One of the New Zealanders in "Luckenwalde" (Stalag IIIA) who brought the badges back in May 1945,

Chris

1

[90th Light]

One of the New Zealanders in "Luckenwalde" (Stalag IIIA) who brought the badges back in May 1945,

Chris

2

[90th Light]

One of the New Zealanders in "Luckenwalde" (Stalag IIIA) who brought the badges back in May 1945.

These badges are all bronze versions. I had to use a flash to photograph them through the cabinet and it has washed the bronze colour out on two of them.

The makers are;

bronze night fighter by "RK"
bronze recon/ by "BSW"
bronze ground attack by "RSS"

Chris

3

[90th Light]

The Australians were also there and brought badges back from "Luckenwalde" (Stalag IIIA) that are now on display in some Australian museums


"This badge was collected by George Alfred Archer who was born at Banksia, NSW on 17 February, 1917. He enlisted on 22 July 1940 and sent to Canada as part of the Empire Training Scheme from Sydney on the Empress of Russia. He was commissioned Flight lieutenant pilot and joined 104 Squadron (RAF), Bomber Command at Driffield in the UK on 28 December, 1940. On 21 July, 1942 the Wellington bomber he flying was shot down over Duisenberg. Archer was made a Prisoner of War and sent to Stalag Luft 111 at Luckenwalde, 30 miles South of Berlin. He was moved to Oflag XX1B in Szubin, Poland on 28 October, 1942 and back to Stalag Luft 111 on 14 April, 1943. The Russian Army liberated the camp on 21 April, 1945. On a routine scavenging detail for food at the end of April Flt Lt Archer souvenired a number of German badges from an abandoned shop in the local town."


You can read more about it here;

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL/04308.001?image=2


Chris

[90th Light]

Whoops,

I forgot that I also picked up one of the FJR cuff titles from "Luckenwalde" (Stalag IIIA).

Sadly so far the "Afrika" C/T variation from this hoard has eluded me,

Chris

[Antonio Scapini]

Hi Chris, too bad the Afrika ct is the only piece that interest us...
You should open a thread when you'll find some good pictures of the CT you were speaking about. I'm curious to see which kind of cufftitle could be.

[Leroy]

....too bad the Afrika ct is the only piece that interest us...

Not really....

[Antonio Scapini]

Good eye Leroy!
Chris, are you sure all these pieces are a wartime find? To be honest from what I see the Kreta CT let me suspicious, but tomorrow I'll check in my database.
Isn't it possible some pieces were added later or that all could be like the famous "Steinhauer & Luck barter board" where we found the flat back BKA, early postwar?