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**Tim O'Keefe** · 06-15-2015, 05:43 PM

Next is the dark brown version, this version has been verified as a '57 Reunion ct. by veteran's from Afrika themselves.

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**Tim O'Keefe** · 06-15-2015, 05:52 PM

This last red/brown version is maybe thought to be the KM version. The difference in color is about the only thing different from the '57 Reunion version or tan version. Is this red/brown version from the same time period as the darker brown '57 and the above light tan version ? If so are all three types original from the War or all from the '57 Reunion era or something else ?

Included is a photo from Gordon W. of this red/brown ct being worn on a KM jacket, but can't tell in the photo if its this ct or just a standard Afrika ct...?

What do you guys think of these various ct's ?

thanks
Tim

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**90th Light** · 06-16-2015, 01:10 AM

There was definitely a ersatz cotton/ linen version made Tim,

I have not yet been lucky enough to pick one up but I have found a "Kreta" example. The ones out here in New Zealand came from the LW base was at "Luckenwalde" ( Stalag IIIA ?) which I am told is between Leipzig and Dresden.

There was an article published in the magazine called "POW-WOW" for members of the New Zealand former prisoner of war association in 1980. I do now have a copy of this article and will put up a thread about this find/ hoard some time soon.

The badges which I have, were obtained in May 1945 by more than one New Zealand soldier who was in this German prisoner of war camp. The Germans up and went. The prisoners were left to their own devices to look after them-selves until the Allies arrived. The first allies to get there were the Russians but they had no spare food or clothing. The Russians organised passes (in Russian saying that they were comrades in the struggle) for the various POW's to go searching and look after themselves without risk of being shot by other allies from the east.

The POW's organised some groups to go and find food. In the course of this search they checked out a LW base close by and raided the stores. A blanket was filled with LW flight-clasps and qualification badges. This was carried back to the POW camp with other items and dumped down on the ground. Any-one who wanted some could help themselves.

One of the NZ veterans who I got mine from had 20 different types of badges in his hoard alone. I spoke to one of the other collectors who also picked up more than one of these POW bring-back hoards. He told me he could remember a lot of flight clasps, qualification badges and cuff titles including an "AFRIKA TYPE ON TIGHTLY WOVEN COTTON" and early FJR1 titles. He also said, many of the badges he handled from these POW hoards had been made by Osang. The makers among my badges are Osang, RK, BSW, RSS, B&NL and Assmann plus several with no makers mark.

Hope this is of some interest in the matter and thus I wonder if one or more of the types of variation Afrika on tight woven cotton that you have shown here Tim, is one found at "Luckenwalde" in May 1945 ???

Chris

**Tim O'Keefe** · 06-16-2015, 01:52 AM

Hi Chris

Excellent info as always. Have heard of the "erzatz" Afrika ct before, but not sure what to make of it ?

Would be very interested to see your Krete ct from Luckenwalde in May 1945, & the article when you have time, as would others i'm sure.

So you think the above tan version could be this erzatz version from '44-45 ?

Whats interesting is that they all supposedly come from different periods in time, yet appear quite similar, am thinking maybe all three are from the '57 Re-union era ? Here is a DAK veterans re-union board with the dark brown ct.

kind regards
Tim

Attached Files

DAKreunion.jpg (201.6 KB, 264 views)

**Antonio Scapini** · 06-16-2015, 03:04 AM

All the CT you posted Tim are made from the same factory. Same type of embroidery and same base fabric (the only difference is the color).
All these are postwar pieces, recognized from vets and easy to find even in "new form" ('57 style) vets groups.
Below I post another found in a '57 style group from a DKiG winner. In this group the awards were divided from wartime and postwar. The whole group will be showed on the book I'm working in.

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571.jpg (94.2 KB, 263 views)

**Antonio Scapini** · 06-16-2015, 03:08 AM

Furthermore this same pattern is offered for sale from some reenactment web sites...
So IMO this patter has absolutely no chances to be discussed as wartime.

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**Antonio Scapini** · 06-16-2015, 03:13 AM

There is another pattern, not easy to find, that could be considered a "border line" piece, but base fabric and construction are like the '57 pattern, so IMO, until further unquestionable evidences, this pattern too should be considered postwar.

Here's a picture of the other pattern (sorry for the watermark but the original picture is on another DB).

Hope this help.

Attached Files

4219196_1.jpg (187.0 KB, 258 views)

**90th Light** · 06-16-2015, 05:56 PM

The collectors out here in NZ who saw the "Luckenwalde" ( Stalag IIIA ?) "Afrika" cuff titles were a bit taken back by them at the time. They knew their DAK/ tropical stuff and observed that these Afrika C/T were quite different in terms of the material used from what they were use to seeing.

My hope is that some one has a Polaroid photo from the time of one of the hoards with the Afrika C/T's in it or even better the C/T itself. When I get a chance I will make phone call or two and see if such an image might still exist,

Chris

**Antonio Scapini** · 06-17-2015, 03:15 AM

Maybe they saw the so called "Fallschirmjaeger" version?
Or maybe some field made patterns?
Or maybe a known pattern they didn't recognize?
It would be interesting know some more about.

I'm sure the official patterns were made with 3 different base fabric and 6-7 different embrodery + there are some unofficial versions, but no one original wartime piece is made with the fabric showed in cufftitles posted from Tim and me in this thread.

**90th Light** · 06-17-2015, 04:59 AM

I have spoken to one of the collectors who knows of this find and handled the Afrika C/T's amongst it. This is what he has just told me;

"The 'AFRIKA' cufftitle was picked up with a swag of flight bars etc. and with a "Fallschirm Rgt 1" cuff title. From memory that 'AFRIKA' title was not like any of the cuff-titles on this WA thread. The closest looking is the first one Tim O'K showed but the one from the "Luckenwalde" find was a much finer weave, and was soft to handle, a high quality piece too regarding the weave of the letters and the palm trees.

I bought it and had it at home here for a couple of months. However, I traded it once I established that it was apparently not ever issued in the period after Africa that any other collector at the time was aware of. Indeed no-one I spoke to had ever seen anything like it and if it had not been for the fact I knew of its indisputably wartime origins they would have dismissed it as a fake. I already had a couple of nice examples of the normal camelhair type and decided I did not need a totally unknown style.

I must have taken photos of it but do not know where those photos, or negatives, would be at this time. I do not know what the collector who got it off me did with it. It is not impossible that he may still have it, but not likely I'm afraid. It was made from a fine linen type cloth with a squarish weave. The cloth was not thin, would have been just as thick as the camelhair version, which is also soft in the hand and easy to fold as you will know.

That is about all I can tell you. If I can think of where I might have put any old photos or negatives from the 1980s, I'll have a look, but do not get your hopes up. "

I will contact some other collectors who know of this find or handled this type of Afrika C/T and see what they have or also remember,

Chris

**Antonio Scapini** · 06-17-2015, 09:14 AM

I have me too few Afrika CTs never showed before and quite impossible to find, I'm keeping them for my next project. I'm curious about this CT you are speaking about, so if you find something interesting keep me (and us) updated!

**90th Light** · 06-17-2015, 10:04 AM

As soon as I find out any more, I will add it to this thread.

We have been talking more about this since I last posted. The Afrika C/T that Tim posted first in post number 1 is very, very close to what my friend remembers the example from "Luckenwalde" being like. Very close indeed.

It will be interesting to find out what the other NZ collectors who saw these remember,

Chris

**speedytop** · 06-17-2015, 10:36 AM

Hi,

I'm sorry, that English is not my native language.

But please, what is meant with " '57 Reunion "

A German reunion happened in 1989/1990.

Post war made "Afrika Ct's" could never be 57er, they could only be copies, reproductions or fakes.

Uwe

**Tim O'Keefe** · 06-18-2015, 07:21 PM

Thanks Chris & Antonio for exploring the possibility that these Afrika ct's could have been from the War.

For me at this point the evidence is completly lacking that these are an original war variation. The examples that i have seen are associated with both the '53 & '57 DAK Reunions and remembered by the vets themselves. Though i have presented a photo of the KM red/brown version being worn it is not indisputable and maybe even contrary ? When you look at the examples Antonio has shown, (thanks !) the construction and materials are so similar that my conclusion is that for now they are all post war.

Chris if you can find anymore info or even photos of the "erzatz" ct found in the "Luckenwalde" discovery please let us know.

Here is a blue variation of the standard type just to mix it up even more ? Anyone ?

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KM or '57 Reunion, or fake Afrika ct's

KM or '57 Reunion, or fake Afrika ct's

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