Announcement

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 12:33 PM

Date:
10-14-2013
Thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=Metz+1944
Started by:
sog55
Photo Attribution:
sog55
Caption:
hello

good or fake ?

Judgement:
Repro

Attached Files

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 12:38 PM

Date:
10-14-2013
Thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=Metz+1944
Started by:
sog55
Photo Attribution:
djpool
Caption:
hello

good or fake ?

Judgement:
Repro (Comparison of a good one to the one starting the thread.)
In my own opinion, one thing that makes me believe this to be a repro is the close clearance of the uptick in the arm of the 'e' back to the main body.

Attached Files

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 12:46 PM

Date:
01-24-2014
Thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=Metz+1944
Started by:
Daniel.S
Photo Attribution:
martin guerre
Caption:
Hello Guys.

Did any of you buy the metz cufftitle from Pvl?

It sold in seconds and there is only one pic of it, and i dont know how to copy from twitter

https://twitter.com/Milisthlm/status...033536/photo/1

If its ok, i would like to have more pics for my files, ofcorse you can PM me about it.

THank you

Daniel.

Judgement:
Real

Attached Files

attachment.jpg (56.0 KB, 501 views)

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 12:52 PM

Informational thread:

Date:
08-02-2014
Thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=Metz+1944
Started by:
Bob Hritz
Caption:
I know the basic story of the defense of Metz. What I do not know is what, if any, numbered units were involved and were entitled to wear the Metz 1944 cuff title.

Bob Hritz

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 01:05 PM

Here are some pics from a SOLDBUCH, just received today, showing the entry for the award of the METZ 1944 cuff title.
Photos are courtesy of Member:
M44 Breadbag

I do not understand the award date of 1 Sept. 1944, since the inception of the award, according to Scott Pritchett, is 28 December, 1944.
In any event, here are the Soldbuch photos.
As far as I am concerned, they are his property and I would like to thank him for supplying them for this thread!!

Attached Files

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 01:18 PM

This brings us up to date, with the exception of the thread that I started last week. I am still waiting for the owner of the cuff title, that he is currently offering for sale, to answer my request for photos that can be put on here and saved for future reference.
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=791970

I did notice this important issue and I took note of it in the other thread from last week.
The accepted cuff titles had some characteristics that I want to mention.
1) The uptick of the bottom part of the 'e' left a certain detailed, measurable gap, not seen in the repros, as shown in Post #17.
2) There was an oval shape in the enclosed space of the upper part of the numeral '9'.
3) The '4's had an upsweep or a flourish at the extreme right end of the arms.
4) The back side had two parallel lines of white stitching running the length of the cuff title. I have noticed two variations, where the stitching lines are of different widths apart.
This does not preclude a 2nd pattern from consideration. This is what this thread is all about. We need more pictures of this other possible pattern. Some people will say that they are not a "possible" but a "definite". I cannot argue with them as they know more about it then I do. What I do know is that the pattern that we have seen on the WAF is the one with, at least, the four attributes that I have mentioned.

I hope this was a worthy effort and will help out the membership.
As I stated at the beginning of this thread, please feel free to contribute your information.
Thank you,
Tim Alexander

**Antonio Scapini** · 03-18-2015, 03:12 PM

You made a great work here Tim, but as I told you, informations are partial.
You showed only 2 variations and miss completely 2 more.
Too bad the most part of collectors never studied in deep this field and they usually compare a cufftitle with what they think the only original pattern.
The result is the same if we compare a Deumer Panzer badge with a Juncker thinking the Juncker is the only original: we will dismiss a Deumer original Panzer badge only because we don't know Deumer was a maker in activity during the Third Reich...

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 03:18 PM

I showed all of the cuff titles that have been put up on the WAF. These were everything. If anyone had posted the other two, I didn't find them. If you can point out examples that have been shown on the Forum, I would be thrilled to show them in this thread.
Otherwise, I would like to thank you for your kind comments. I am still waiting for the gentleman in California to answer my request for pictures so that I can put them on here, so that they will become permanent additions to the thread.
Tim

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 05:31 PM

Date:
03-14-2015
Thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=791970
Started by:
TP Alexander
Photo Attribution:
Robert Demel-Owner of Antiques, Arms & Armor
Caption:
Here is the link to the METZ 1944 CT that is for sale.

Judgment:
I had made the statement in the thread that it was not 'textbook'. That doesn't make it a repro. I admit that I lack the background and knowledge to make an educated judgment here. Both Antonio Scapini and Bob Hritz attest to it's originality and further state that they would be happy to have it in their collection. Since all of the CT's that were seen on the WAF were of the variety that showed the four characteristics mentioned in an earlier post, I could not say authoritatively one way or the other. Mr. Scapini speaks of two other variations that I did not have access to, here on the WAF threads. He asserts that Robert Demel's CT is one of them.

Attached Files

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 05:32 PM

Date:
03-14-2015
Thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=791970
Started by:
TP Alexander
Photo Attribution:
Robert Demel-Owner of Antiques, Arms & Armor
Caption:
Here is the link to the METZ 1944 CT that is for sale.

Judgment:
I had made the statement in the thread that it was not 'textbook'. That doesn't make it a repro. I admit that I lack the background and knowledge to make an educated judgment here. Both Antonio Scapini and Bob Hritz attest to it's originality and further state that they would be happy to have it in their collection. Since all of the CT's that were seen on the WAF were of the variety that showed the four characteristics mentioned in an earlier post, I could not say authoritatively one way or the other. Mr. Scapini speaks of two other variations that I did not have access to, here on the WAF threads. He asserts that Robert Demel's CT is one of them.

Attached Files

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 05:39 PM

Date:
03-14-2015
Thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=791970
Started by:
TP Alexander
Photo Attribution:
Antonio Scapini & Bob Hritz
Caption:
Here is the link to the METZ 1944 CT that is for sale.

Judgment:
I had made the statement in the thread that it was not 'textbook'. That doesn't make it a repro. I admit that I lack the background and knowledge to make an educated judgment here. Both Antonio Scapini and Bob Hritz attest to it's originality and further state that they would be happy to have it in their collection. Since all of the CT's that were seen on the WAF were of the variety that showed the four characteristics mentioned in an earlier post, I could not say authoritatively one way or the other. Mr. Scapini speaks of two other variations that I did not have access to, here on the WAF threads. He asserts that Robert Demel's CT is one of them..

Attached Files

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 05:40 PM

Date:
03-14-2015
Thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=791970
Started by:
TP Alexander
Photo Attribution:
Spencer (The cuff title in wear.)
Caption:
Here is the link to the METZ 1944 CT that is for sale.

Judgment:
I had made the statement in the thread that it was not 'textbook'. That doesn't make it a repro. I admit that I lack the background and knowledge to make an educated judgment here. Both Antonio Scapini and Bob Hritz attest to it's originality and further state that they would be happy to have it in their collection. Since all of the CT's that were seen on the WAF were of the variety that showed the four characteristics mentioned in an earlier post, I could not say authoritatively one way or the other. Mr. Scapini speaks of two other variations that I did not have access to, here on the WAF threads. He asserts that Robert Demel's CT is one of them....

Attached Files

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 05:42 PM

Date:
03-14-2015
Thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=791970
Started by:
TP Alexander
Photo Attribution:
Fred Green (Shot of unknown dealer case at 2015 SoS)
Caption:
Here is the link to the METZ 1944 CT that is for sale.

Judgment:
I had made the statement in the thread that it was not 'textbook'. That doesn't make it a repro. I admit that I lack the background and knowledge to make an educated judgment here. Both Antonio Scapini and Bob Hritz attest to it's originality and further state that they would be happy to have it in their collection. Since all of the CT's that were seen on the WAF were of the variety that showed the four characteristics mentioned in an earlier post, I could not say authoritatively one way or the other. Mr. Scapini speaks of two other variations that I did not have access to, here on the WAF threads. He asserts that Robert Demel's CT is one of them.....

Attached Files

a5.jpg (119.5 KB, 479 views)

**TP Alexander** · 03-18-2015, 05:44 PM

Date:
03-14-2015
Thread:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=791970
Started by:
TP Alexander
Photo Attribution:
Indycollector (Photos of his variation METZ 1944 CT)
Caption:
Here is the link to the METZ 1944 CT that is for sale.

Judgment:
I had made the statement in the thread that it was not 'textbook'. That doesn't make it a repro. I admit that I lack the background and knowledge to make an educated judgment here. Both Antonio Scapini and Bob Hritz attest to it's originality and further state that they would be happy to have it in their collection. Since all of the CT's that were seen on the WAF were of the variety that showed the four characteristics mentioned in an earlier post, I could not say authoritatively one way or the other. Mr. Scapini speaks of two other variations that I did not have access to, here on the WAF threads. He asserts that Robert Demel's CT is one of them..........

Attached Files

**Antonio Scapini** · 03-18-2015, 06:33 PM

Tim, can you show us why we should believe some are textbook some others not?
It seems to me what happend with the Memel medals some years ago: one was textbook (?) And all the rest not. Today we know 11 different manufactures.

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The METZ 1944 Cuff Title

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