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Billy Kramer

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    #1

    Lappland Shield

    I don't really know what to call this one. I can't really call it a repro, because it doesn't even remotely look like the "real ones" I have seen, and it is not made of the material they are either.........so it does not seem to have made to try to fool or duplicate an original. I have no idea how old it is, or who made it. It looks about the same now as it did the day I found it in a junk box for 50 pfennig at one of the fleamarkets I used to go to in Germany between 1973 to 76....probably either Frankfurt, Mainz, or Kassel....could have been a few others as well, but most likely one of the first two I named above.

    Can anyone tell me about when it was made, what for, and by whom. I am sure it doesn't have much value though.

    I think one time someone, don't remember who, told me it was a "57", but I have no idea.

    Thanks,
    Ron

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    #2
    Hi Ron,

    one is absolutely clear, it is not a "57".

    Originals are handmade, in variations.

    Therefore the answer for a factory-made piece is clear too, not original.
    Some makers produced these shields post 1945. For example you could buy such a shield of the dealer Sedlatzek in 1956 for 4,- DM, like the other not original shields as copies (in German = Kopie).

    Uwe

    Comment

      #3
      Thanks Uwe. I, of course, already knew it wasn't an original. Maybe it was one of the Sedlatzek ones like you mentioned. Were they marked in any way, and did they make them before 1956 or did they start then?

      Thanks,
      Ron

      Comment

        #4
        this side tabs form,simply postwar repro absolutely after 56

        Comment

          #5
          Hi kraut72,

          "simply postwar repro absolutely after 56"

          You know it and you have sources for that?


          Hi Ron,

          they made them several years before 1956. But I have a source for the year 1956, and that was the post war price list No. 7 of Sedlatzek.

          Uwe

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by kraut72 View Post
            this side tabs form,simply postwar repro absolutely after 56
            As Uwe I'm curious too: can you show us the variations made pre '56 from rhe diffent makes as Sedlatzek?

            My books:

            - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
            - THE SS TK RING
            - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
            - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
            - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

            and more!

            sigpic

            Comment

              #7
              Both this tab style and the prong backed ones are easiest to describe by calling them the '57 variety' as they were made for the veterans that earned them and not as copies, fakes or anything intended to deceive. It may well be that had they managed to get these factory produced in the summer of 45 that this is what they would have turned out like and indeed that was the intention and moves were taken to do so, however, naturally enough, Norwegian factories weren't taking production orders from the Germans anymore and after a few months they no longer had access to their own workshop facilities

              None of these factory produced types are from 45\46
              Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by kraut72 View Post
                this side tabs form,simply postwar repro absolutely after 56
                Sorry......I do not know how to address you, since I am in large part of German ancestry and have many German and part German friends and family members, and the word "kraut" is (where I am from) a very derogatory word to call Germans. I do not mean to offend you by this, maybe where you are from the word is not derogatory.

                Words and their meanings have been a very large part of my life, since I have been for most of my working life a teacher, lawyer and a judge. Many court actions have been fought over the meaning of words.

                I simply must take issue with your use of the word "repro" to describe the shield. One definition of the word "repro" or "reproduction" is "something reproduced, especially in the faithfulness of its resemblance to the form and elements of the original". This cannot apply to this shield for two reasons. One is that it does not really faithfully resemble the accepted "originals", or at least the ones I have seen, which seem to all have been handmade; which brings up my second reason. As I understand to be the case (could be wrong, because I have never claimed to be an expert on this stuff....just collected it since 1946) this shield never was put into production by the authorities of the 3rd Reich, instead they were only handmade individually by mostly, I think, people in or near Lappland; accordingly, there was no standard official production of these and there therefore could be no "reproduction" of one. I would say that what Simon and Uwe said is likely correct. They likely came about after the war, maybe by Sedlatzek or whoever, for veterans to get who earned them and didn't get one made before.

                Once again, I don't mean to offend or start a big argument over this....I just think it is important to use proper words, if possible, to describe something.

                Ron

                Comment

                  #9
                  Ron

                  I recently found a fair bit of documentation concerning the award in the Norwegian nation archives which holds all the paperwork for AOK 20 (ie. Norway) post surrender.

                  The reason for the wide variety of handmade designs is down to the lack of original design to go off. Units were sent the order awarding the shield which included a description of what it was to look like but many units never received any kind of illustration of the suggested design hence the variety.

                  The so called '57' variety is however based upon the original design. This one comes from the army's chief medical officer Generalarzt Rudolf Lipf who was at army HQ and thus where the 'official' design was drawn.

                  On a side note 'Lappland' is a large area of northern Scandinavia covering parts of 4 countries. All awards were made starting 1st July 1945 and only occurred in Norway, a large number of troops that had served within the qualifying area being in Norway at the end of the war. I've tried to make a rough estimate of how many were potentially awarded and I think a figure of 100 000 to 150 000 is not unrealistic.
                  Attached Files
                  Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Simon,

                    Thanks a lot......very interesting. I really never knew any of that when I was actively collecting stuff (no books then, or at least I didn't encounter any until much later on).

                    Even more interesting is about Lappland itself. We never studied about it in school here. I knew it was an area but not that it covered parts of 4 countries....learned something today.

                    Ron

                    Comment

                      #11
                      To me it looks exactly like the 1970's Rudolf Souval version, item #6/5 on their Pricelist, priced @ ÖS 90.-, and/or DM 12.90.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Silesien View Post
                        To me it looks exactly like the 1970's Rudolf Souval version, item #6/5 on their Pricelist, priced @ ÖS 90.-, and/or DM 12.90.
                        I agree with Silesien.
                        The showed one is a Souval postwar piece. I have 2 of them which came in big Souval postwar groupings and can show them later.

                        Michael

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