Cuff title on both sleeves

[Spotswood]

Hi Guys,

I know little about uniforms so I am looking for some help.

I am trying to place a particular Panzer unit. The date of the photo is said to be March 45. The gentleman in question is wearing a Heeres black Panzer uniform and it appears to have a cuff title on both sleeves. Does anyone know which Division this could be?

Have tried some searches and found some lively discussions but nothing specific enough to nail down a unit.

Or at least did only named units like GD or FGD carry cuff titles whereas number divisions such as 1 or 7 PD where not entitled to do so?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Cheers and Happy New Year

Neill

[Wood]

I presume you have ruled out "der Speiss" (if thats how you spell it)
Pete

[pauke]

spelling

der Spiess is the correct spelling

[Leroy]

Some GD wore their divisional cufftitle on the right sleeve and the Fuhrerhauptquartier title on the left sleeve (when so assigned). If this was in a combat area, it may be more likely, as said previously, to be a "der Spiess" set-up which just looks like twin titles. (Same basic color contrast of silver/black.)

[Spotswood]

Two more questions

Hi guys

thanks for the quick replies.

I am trying to establish if Fuhrer Grenadier Division is a possibility for the Panzers I am looking at, so it is good to hear that "GD" units did this.

As I say I know very little about uniforms, but do want to learn so could somebody please explain the phrases
1."Der Spiess" and
2. what the "Fuhrerhauptquartier" title means and is about.

Again thanks for the replies already, it is very much appreciated and is a big help.

Cheers Neill

[Gary B]

Hi guys

thanks for the quick replies.

I am trying to establish if Fuhrer Grenadier Division is a possibility for the Panzers I am looking at, so it is good to hear that "GD" units did this.

As I say I know very little about uniforms, but do want to learn so could somebody please explain the phrases
1."Der Spiess" and
2. what the "Fuhrerhauptquartier" title means and is about.

Again thanks for the replies already, it is very much appreciated and is a big help.

Cheers Neill

Hi,

Simply put, Der Spiess was the top NCO of a unit, first sergeant, Sergeant Major. They wore the double silver tress on their sleeves.

Soldiers assigned to guard the Fuhrer's HQ wore the FHQ cufftitle.

Gary B

[Wood]

"Der Spiess" :- http://moebius.freehostia.com/hauptfeldwebel.htm

[Spotswood]

Hi guys

thanks for the replies.

they help a lot

regards Neill

[Waffenreich]

Could also be a troop in GD who was a veteran of AFRIKA. He'd be authorized to wear the AFRIKA cufftitle on his left sleeve as it's a campaign award, and his GD unit title on his right. Can you post a scan of the pic??

[Spotswood]

Hi Guys

Waffenreich I had wonder about the Afrika title but having gone through Woods posted link and then looking at the photo again I beleive it is two bands on his left sleeve rather than lettering. The caption for the photo states that the 2x3cm photos were brought out in 45 "by the senior NCO", so this could indeed from the description in the link be "der Spiess" of I./Pz Rgt 2 in March 45.

I still have not learnt the photo thing yet but if someone contacts me I can scan it and email it to them and they could post it.

The original problem was that both FBD and FGD are in the approximate area at the same time so I needed to know if it were possible for some one from I./Pz Rgt 2 to have this appearance, which you guys have shown me is possible.

I have learnt to be a little skeptical of captions and I find it good to get a second opinion from a different source.

Again thanks for all the help guys this has been most enlightening.

Cheers Neill.

[Waffenreich]

Neill,

E-mail it to me at soldat4@cox.net and I'll post it.

Thanks.

Bob

[Spotswood]

sorry for the delay

Hi guys

Sorry to take so long.

My father in law has been waiting for open heart surgery and going to the hospital and back is sucking up my spare time,
Waffenreich I will try to scan and send it to you as soon as I can.

thanks for being patient guys
Neill.

[Waffenreich]

Thanks for e-mailing the pics Neill.

After looking as close as I could at these I really think what we're seeing is a Spiess.

First off the guy is an NCO as indicated by the EM/NCO belt buckle and prominent blobs of silvery looking stuff on his shoulders (the tressse on his straps). At the first glance the bands on his cuffs look like the "piston rings" for a Spiess, but that little vertical sliver jutting from the lower band on his right sleeve almost makes it look like the break in script of a cufftitle. However, there is no cufftitle worn on the right sleeve that has a break in the script. The band on his left sleeve when looked at closely look like they have a consistent line of black running parallel in the middle of the upper and lower bands of silver.

I know this isn't much to go on, but the pics don't provide anything conclusive enough to indicate anything other than a Spiess.

This is just my opinion and I hope it helped. I wish your Dad the best!!

Bob

Hi guys

Sorry to take so long.

My father in law has been waiting for open heart surgery and going to the hospital and back is sucking up my spare time,
Waffenreich I will try to scan and send it to you as soon as I can.

thanks for being patient guys
Neill.

[Spotswood]

photos can be inconclusive

Hi Bob

thanks for posting the photos. Especially with these subjects a picture is worth a thousand words.

From the guidance that Wood and Gary gave me i had come to the same conclusion, but it is always good to have it confirmed by some one with more experience.

Interested to see if there is any more info.

cheers Neill