KRETA cuffband - Kriegsmarine ?

[fox-terier]

Do you think that green variant AFRIKA cuffband is fantasy item, too ?
Regards,
Piotr

[Martyn1]

Do you think that green variant AFRIKA cuffband is fantasy item, too ?
Regards,
Piotr

We are not talking about Afrika cufftitles we are talking about a Kreta cufftitle that was never produced and using other possible variants of whatever cufftitle to try back it up is not going to make it a genuine artical.

[Patrick W]

Martin,

Talking about Kreta and Afrika cuffs isn't necessarily comparing apples and oranges- besides the green Afrika cuff mentioned there was also a brown ribbed material version which can be seen on at least one period photo being worn by a KM member- again not officially authorised but certainly alive and kicking pre May 45.
I have no problem with the blue Kreta band, it has been referenced for as long as I have been collecting and probably much longer and they turn up so infreqently- much less than any fake that has hit the market I should think. Why are you strongly of the opinion that this extrememly rare cuff is nothing but fantasy?

[Martyn1]

Martin,

Talking about Kreta and Afrika cuffs isn't necessarily comparing apples and oranges- besides the green Afrika cuff mentioned there was also a brown ribbed material version which can be seen on at least one period photo being worn by a KM member- again not officially authorised but certainly alive and kicking pre May 45.
I have no problem with the blue Kreta band, it has been referenced for as long as I have been collecting and probably much longer and they turn up so infreqently- much less than any fake that has hit the market I should think. Why are you strongly of the opinion that this extrememly rare cuff is nothing but fantasy?

Because in over 30 years of collecting going to fairs all over Europe haveing hundreds of old paper lists proir to the internet and haveing hundreds of reference books they are just not there,this is exactly how something that never exisisted starts to gain credibility,its a fantasy item that was never produced during the third reich ,show me where it has been referenced.

[Bob Hritz]

From my hotel ads in the 1970s of early 1980s.

Bob Hritz

[Martyn1]

From my hotel ads in the 1970s of early 1980s.

Bob Hritz

And you really think thats a genuine period piece.

[Hank C.]

From my hotel ads in the 1970s of early 1980s.

Bob Hritz

While Bob has forgotten more about 3rd Reich than I can ever hope to know, just because it was bought in the 70s/80s doesn't make it real. That would make all the other fakes from the 60s/70s/80s "real".

And I remain skeptical about this piece. Just because that's how I am. Saying that because Afrka bands came in different unauthorised colors make it okay for a Kreta in a different color is also faulty analogy.

Until I saw some kind of hard proof, I'll remain skeptical. I might miss out on a "great price on a rare item", but I just might save money that would've been wasted.

All the best,
Hank

[Martyn1]

While Bob has forgotten more about 3rd Reich than I can ever hope to know, just because it was bought in the 70s/80s doesn't make it real. That would make all the other fakes from the 60s/70s/80s "real".

And I remain skeptical about this piece. Just because that's how I am. Saying that because Afrka bands came in different unauthorised colors make it okay for a Kreta in a different color is also faulty analogy.

Until I saw some kind of hard proof, I'll remain skeptical. I might miss out on a "great price on a rare item", but I just might save money that would've been wasted.

All the best,
Hank

Thanks Hank I was looking for a little bit of support,look at both the titles shown here both have nearly the same ''plucks'' in the same area to the Russia braid to make them a bit more convinceing and both have never been near a uniform and I will bet everything that each one anyone finds is exactly the same,the whole reason for this is as you say quite rightly to stop people hopefully loseing there money.

[Bob Hritz]

Hank,

I have bought militaria from many thousands of US veterans. I bought from hundreds of veterans a month for 9 years. It takes only a few minutes to determine if someone is passing something off or doesn't know enough to have been in the service. Looking at the material that was brought back would be the proof. I doubt I would have paid much for a blue Kreta cuff title because I had little interest in such cloth (non SS) back then.

Just because there is no photographic evidence of it being worn does not make it a reproduction. I have not seen period photographic evidence of thousands of items and know they are real. I believe there was finally found ONE photo of a retired pilot badge in wear.

Those who have not hunted Third Reich relics like I have cannot understand how much material was brought back.

Anyway, there are those who refuse to believe but that is OK. Same for the round pilot badges, solid back anti partisan badges, cloth wound badges and many other items that were brought back by WWII veterans.

Any collector should only save what they believe and what appeals to them.

Bob Hritz

[Hank C.]

Hank,

I have bought militaria from many thousands of US veterans. I bought from hundreds of veterans a month for 9 years. It takes only a few minutes to determine if someone is passing something off or doesn't know enough to have been in the service. Looking at the material that was brought back would be the proof. I doubt I would have paid much for a blue Kreta cuff title because I had little interest in such cloth (non SS) back then.

Just because there is no photographic evidence of it being worn does not make it a reproduction. I have not seen period photographic evidence of thousands of items and know they are real. I believe there was finally found ONE photo of a retired pilot badge in wear.

Those who have not hunted Third Reich relics like I have cannot understand how much material was brought back.

Anyway, there are those who refuse to believe but that is OK. Same for the round pilot badges, solid back anti partisan badges, cloth wound badges and many other items that were brought back by WWII veterans.

Any collector should only save what they believe and what appeals to them.

Bob Hritz

No argument at all on that Bob. As stated, as much questionable stuff comes onto the market, I remain cautious. Whether it's the new stuff from Staegemeir, or fakes that have been around since the 50's. I might miss out on good stuff now and again, but I'll hopefully not waste money on bad stuff.

I'll never have the opportunity you did, and it's very possible this is a good cuff title. Maybe our skepticism keeps a few rare items undervalued...and that's pretty rare in itself these days.

all the best
hank