A Krim Comparison

[pantherv]

Hi all...these two types below often get posted up for opinions but has anyone noticed the similarity between the two. I know Andrei has commented on it.

Could these shields be two types from the same maker.

So here they are side by side. Any comments appreciated..

[Tim B.]

Hi Peter,

Yes, I've always thought these were from the same manufacturer as well.

I know Sascha Weber's book lists them as being from different "unknown" manufacturer's but, the strikingly different eagle's head (when compared to other makers) and the strong similarity in design to one another, just points to the same maker IMO.

As we seen on the Deumer shield issue, it could be attributed simply to a difference in a working or production die. Also note, the pins seem to be specific to the type of shield, one having the flat prongs on the back, while the other has the side tabs.

What I find interesting is, as obscure as this maker's shield is when compared to say, Deumer, someone produced a fake of this style.
Tim

[Tiff97]

I think there were 3 types of shields of the manufacturer
I made collages - Peter show them

[pantherv]

.......

Posting for Andrei

I am sure that there are 3 types of shields this manufacturer
Let them look
Two types of the side tabs
and one type in normal prongs
This type occurs in zinc and sheet metal
1 type sheet metal (normal prongs)shield from the collection of Peter
1 type zinc (normal prongs)rare shield from the collection of Jan
2-type sheet metal (side tabs)shield from the collection of Peter
3-type sheet metal (side tabs)shield from the collection of VAS70
and then discuss them in detail

[pantherv]

....

3rd type

[pantherv]

.......

Comparisons

The first type, made of zinc and sheet metal
He made the same stamp
Types 2 and 3 made by different working dies
but the master stamp was one
So the similarities and differences
Let's look at the eagles
3 types of shields this manufacturer
we see that they are almost identical
However, between 2 and 3 have distinct types (red arrow)
Here's another difference between 2 and 3 types of shields
the rest of type 2 and 3 are absolutely identical !!!
The difference in numbers between 1 and 2 types of shows
however 2 and 3 types have identical numbers

[pantherv]

.......

and again

but if we look at the details of the peninsula
we will see a complete identity between 1,2, and 3 types of shields
all 3 types have an absolute similarity
I think this shows that all 3 types of workers die
were made from one master stamp
However, manual processing of the engraver, in the process of making a stamp
given all these differences between types, but the absolute repeat the smallest details in the peninsula

[pantherv]

....

last one

but if we look at the details of the peninsula
we will see a complete identity between 1,2, and 3 types of shields
all 3 types have an absolute similarity
I think this shows that all 3 types of workers die
were made from one master stamp
However, manual processing of the engraver, in the process of making a stamp
given all these differences between types, but the absolute repeat the smallest details in the peninsula

so I think that all 3 types of shields
were made by the same manufacturer
Colleagues
Please, your comments
KR Andrei

[Tiff97]

Peter
Thank you so much,you're a real friend
KR Andrei

[Tim B.]

Interesting! I don't think I have ever seen that 3rd type before, but it's possible it was shown or discussed here sometime back, as I kind of remember that "blob" close to the eagle's head from somewhere.

I agree, these must be from the same maker, just too many similarities IMO. Of course, we need to find more information first and then try to find out who the maker is. That might allude to one maker or the "possibilty" of a second maker that used or purchased a die from the master. I know, as we start to discuss and theorize sharing parts, etc; things get really muddy.

Good thread guys!

Tim

[Pascal H.]

A very interesting thread and I apologize to get involved so late.

I would like to compliment Andrei for his very interesting and detailing study of this type of shield.

When seeing all these comparing pictures it looks indeed that all 3 types where made by the same maker.

Just to be complete at this time I would like to add that the 2nd type also existed with prongs (but is very rare).

This would leave me to conclude the following overview.

[Pascal H.]

To make it even more interesting.
The type 2 with prongs doesn't have the "blob" left to the eagle's head (same as type 3) but does have the same wreath as type 2.

[pantherv]

......

I absolutely agree Pascal on your comments. I think it's this sort of collaboration between collectors that can lead to a general concensus on the types of shields and possible makers. So for instance these types discussed could be attributed to Souval (although I accept it can't be proved)

Even if it's only partially correct it's certainly a start.

Great thread...

[Tim B.]

To make it even more interesting.

The type 2 with prongs doesn't have the "blob" left to the eagle's head (same as type 3) but does have the same wreath as type 2.

Yes, another interesting point.

Now, IMO, the "blob" would probably be some sort of die flaw that happened along the way in production. Agree?
Tim

[Pascal H.]

Yes, another interesting point.

Now, IMO, the "blob" would probably be some sort of die flaw that happened along the way in production. Agree?
Tim

Yes, I also think this is what happend. This together with the fact that this type of shield has the side tabs would make this type IMO the last type in the series. Agree?

Kr
Pascal